Life In 19x19

Posted: **Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:53 pm**

oca wrote:I'm currently reading "Attack and Defense" (but for now "defense" is still to be read...)
and "Attack" is still maturing in my head...

so here is a game I played trying to apply all whose things that are flying in my head
and that was a big crash... so here is the game

I have put a lot of comments in the game till move 74
killing move is black 103 I think.

Any comment welcome !

Posted: **Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:38 pm**

Hi skydyr, thanks for your comments !just to clarify... 242 is a miss click... At the worse moment

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:35 am**

It's difficult to make a comment now without being blunt or without avoiding the real issue. I'll choose the former.

242 is a misread, it's not a misclick. It's not a misread to be ashamed of: it happens to all of us. It's very instructive though. It looks like a local ko-threat but due to the not so plain to see double atari, the ko is resolved next.

Our worst mistakes conceal the major hurdles for our progress. Let's not pretend they were accidental or even unfortunate.

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:48 am**

Knotwilg wrote:It's difficult to make a comment now without being blunt or without avoiding the real issue. I'll choose the former.

242 is a misread, it's not a misclick. It's not a misread to be ashamed of: it happens to all of us. It's very instructive though. It looks like a local ko-threat but due to the not so plain to see double atari, the ko is resolved next.

Our worst mistakes conceal the major hurdles for our progress. Let's not pretend they were accidental or even unfortunate.

Well, the exact term would be a "miss touch"... let me explain... I play on IGS on an ipad. I use the "double touch" (I don't remeber the exact name of the option right now) to play a move.

That means that I can touch once to place a move, and then, I have to touch again to actually play the move... and here I must confess I have a bad habbit, I ofen touch once to visualize better the position, and that's what occured here... except that I unfortunatly touched a second time, and so played that move... but I can grant you that I was just evaluating that position and not really wanted to play there...

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:17 am**

oca wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:It's difficult to make a comment now without being blunt or without avoiding the real issue. I'll choose the former.

242 is a misread, it's not a misclick. It's not a misread to be ashamed of: it happens to all of us. It's very instructive though. It looks like a local ko-threat but due to the not so plain to see double atari, the ko is resolved next.

Our worst mistakes conceal the major hurdles for our progress. Let's not pretend they were accidental or even unfortunate.
Well, the exact term would be a "miss touch"... let me explain... I play on IGS on an ipad. I use the "double touch" (I don't remeber the exact name of the option right now) to play a move.

That means that I can touch once to place a move, and then, I have to touch again to actually play the move... and here I must confess I have a bad habbit, I ofen touch once to visualize better the position, and that's what occured here... except that I unfortunatly touched a second time, and so played that move... but I can grant you that I was just evaluating that position and not really wanted to play there...

I grant you that and you've just found a bad habit for yourself to cure. Good luck with that!

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:35 am**

Knotwilg wrote:
I grant you that and you've just found a bad habit for yourself to cure. Good luck with that!

Thank you so much Knotwilg !

I realize now I was falling into trap !
The option on IGS is there to avoid miss touch, and the way I used it provoked the miss touch...

not to say how stupid it is to spent that much time reading book and then relying on that option to better visualize one stone...

I will stop that immediatly, I'm sure that will help me !

Thanks again ! so sad I cannot click the "I like" button more then once....

Posted: **Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:46 pm**

I will remember that 222 for a long time... I suppose I would be alive if I played this 222 at J2 instead

...

Any comments welcome !

Posted: **Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:54 pm**

222 is not the problem. W is still alive after it, and there are actually at least 3 points after 222 where w can live.

Posted: **Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:57 pm**

There were actually many chances to live, for example as late as 236. Can you find it?

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:16 am**

Uberdude wrote:There were actually many chances to live, for example as late as 236. Can you find it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm234 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . X X O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . O O X | $$ | . O O . O . . . O X X X X O . O O X X | $$ | O . O O X O . O . O X O X O O O . X . | $$ | O O . X X O O O . O X O O X . O . . . | $$ | O X X . . O X O O O O O X X X O X . . | $$ | X . . X . O X . X X . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X O O X . . . X O O X X . . . X | $$ | . X O X O X X . . . . X X . . X X X O | $$ | . X X O . O X . . X . . . . . , . O O | $$ | . O O O O O X X . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . O X X O . X . X X X X O . . O . | $$ | . X X X X X O O O . X . . X O O O X O | $$ | . O X . X . X O X X X X X X X . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X O O O O X O O X . . X . X | $$ | . . O X O . X X O O O O O O X X X X . | $$ | . . O X O . X O O Y Y Y O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X b O 1 Y O O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X a X c O O X . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

When I played 234, I was thinking that either black can connect at 'a' (K1), and then G1 and that's over for black,
or he can play at 'b' (G2), like he did, and then I can eat the four

stones and so make two eyes... easy...
but I totally missed the snapback

...

So white 236 should be at 'c', black cannot connect at 'a' thate would be a connect and die. and if he cannot connect, I can eat and make two eyes...

What to learn : The game is not over till the stones are back in there bowls...

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:52 am**

oca wrote:
Uberdude wrote:There were actually many chances to live, for example as late as 236. Can you find it?

$$Wcm234
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . X X O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . O O X |
$$ | . O O . O . . . O X X X X O . O O X X |
$$ | O . O O X O . O . O X O X O O O . X . |
$$ | O O . X X O O O . O X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | O X X . . O X O O O O O X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . X . O X . X X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . X O O X X . . . X |
$$ | . X O X O X X . . . . X X . . X X X O |
$$ | . X X O . O X . . X . . . . . , . O O |
$$ | . O O O O O X X . . . . O O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . X X X X O . . O . |
$$ | . X X X X X O O O . X . . X O O O X O |
$$ | . O X . X . X O X X X X X X X . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O O X O O X . . X . X |
$$ | . . O X O . X X O O O O O O X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X O . X O O Y Y Y O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X b O 1 Y O O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X a X c O O X . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm234 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . X X O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . O O X | $$ | . O O . O . . . O X X X X O . O O X X | $$ | O . O O X O . O . O X O X O O O . X . | $$ | O O . X X O O O . O X O O X . O . . . | $$ | O X X . . O X O O O O O X X X O X . . | $$ | X . . X . O X . X X . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X O O X . . . X O O X X . . . X | $$ | . X O X O X X . . . . X X . . X X X O | $$ | . X X O . O X . . X . . . . . , . O O | $$ | . O O O O O X X . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . O X X O . X . X X X X O . . O . | $$ | . X X X X X O O O . X . . X O O O X O | $$ | . O X . X . X O X X X X X X X . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X O O O O X O O X . . X . X | $$ | . . O X O . X X O O O O O O X X X X . | $$ | . . O X O . X O O Y Y Y O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X b O 1 Y O O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X a X c O O X . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
When I played 234, I was thinking that either black can connect at 'a' (K1), and then G1 and that's over for black,
or he can play at 'b' (G2), like he did, and then I can eat the four stones and so make two eyes... easy...
but I totally missed the snapback ...

So white 236 should be at 'c', black cannot connect at 'a' thate would be a connect and die. and if he cannot connect, I can eat and make two eyes...

What to learn : The game is not over till the stones are back in there bowls...

This is an interesting position. The chance at 236 exists only because Black makes a mistake with 235. If Black had played as below, White would be dead as in the game. However, instead of 234...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm234 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . X X O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . O O X | $$ | . O O . O . . . O X X X X O . O O X X | $$ | O . O O X O . O . O X O X O O O . X . | $$ | O O . X X O O O . O X O O X . O . . . | $$ | O X X . . O X O O O O O X X X O X . . | $$ | X . . X . O X . X X . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X O O X . . . X O O X X . . . X | $$ | . X O X O X X . . . . X X . . X X X O | $$ | . X X O . O X . . X . . . . . , . O O | $$ | . O O O O O X X . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . O X X O . X . X X X X O . . O . | $$ | . X X X X X O O O . X . . X O O O X O | $$ | . O X . X . X O X X X X X X X . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X O O O O X O O X . . X . X | $$ | . . O X O . X X O O O O O O X X X X . | $$ | . . O X O . X O O Y Y Y O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X . O 1 Y O O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 X X . X . O O X . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If White had played 234 at 1 below Black cannot connect at 'a'...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 8 @ 3 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . X X O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . O O X | $$ | . O O . O . . . O X X X X O . O O X X | $$ | O . O O X O . O . O X O X O O O . X . | $$ | O O . X X O O O . O X O O X . O . . . | $$ | O X X . . O X O O O O O X X X O X . . | $$ | X . . X . O X . X X . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X O O X . . . X O O X X . . . X | $$ | . X O X O X X . . . . X X . . X X X O | $$ | . X X O . O X . . X . . . . . , . O O | $$ | . O O O O O X X . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . O X X O . X . X X X X O . . O . | $$ | . X X X X X O O O . X . . X O O O X O | $$ | . O X . X . X O X X X X X X X . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X O O O O X O O X . . X . X | $$ | . . O X O . X X O O O O O O X X X X . | $$ | . . O X O a X O O Y Y Y O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X 1 O 5 Y O O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . 9 4 3 2 X X 6 X 7 O O X . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Of course Black cannot answer 5 at 6 so White lives with 7, but it would have been very gratifying for White to read this far...

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:09 am**

ez4u wrote:If White had played 234 at 1 below Black cannot connect at 'a'...
...
Of course Black cannot answer 5 at 6 so White lives with 7, but it would have been very gratifying for White to read this far...

cannot read that far (by far)... but I like that 234 !

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:22 pm**

Dave shows a nice sequence. If you cannot read that far, you can also think of this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm234 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . X X O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . O O X | $$ | . O O . O . . . O X X X X O . O O X X | $$ | O . O O X O . O . O X O X O O O . X . | $$ | O O . X X O O O . O X O O X . O . . . | $$ | O X X . . O X O O O O O X X X O X . . | $$ | X . . X . O X . X X . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X O O X . . . X O O X X . . . X | $$ | . X O X O X X . . . . X X . . X X X O | $$ | . X X O . O X . . X . . . . . , . O O | $$ | . O O O O O X X . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . O X X O . X . X X X X O . . O . | $$ | . X X X X X O O O . X . . X O O O X O | $$ | . O X . X . X O X X X X X X X . O X . | $$ | . O X X X X O O O O X O O X . . X . X | $$ | . . O X O . X X O O O O O O X X X X . | $$ | . . O X O . X O O Y Y Y O O X . . . . | $$ | . . O O X X 2 O 3 Y O O O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 4 1 X X . X 5 O O X . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is really the "vital point" in this position.
But indeed, oca, the crucial message is that "it ain't over till it's over".

Posted: **Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:59 am**

Thank you Knotwilg, I like that throw in !

for now I'm really happy as my schedule changed a bit, and I have now the possibility to play go game
one Thursday AND Friday nights, so twice a week

.

I'm trying to get ride of that bad habbit I have to place stones on igs client 'just to visualize the position',Even if I'm trying hard not to do so, that still occured to me a 3-4 times.. like a reflex (but fortunatly no 'double touch' this time)... That mean this was really time for me to stop that...

So I played two games, one went really fine for me, a bit scary in the mid game, be that ended fine for me.

I lose the second one, by a few points, here is the game, with comments till move 122.

black 85 was a key moment I think.

As always, any comments very welcome !

Posted: **Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:41 pm**

Hi oca,

did you consider R13 ?

did you consider K3 direction ?

K3 direction feels bigger.

ridiculous.

find the correct follow-up.

Life In 19x19

OCA's log

Re: OCA's log

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