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Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:51 am
by skydyr
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:06 am
by andreyl
white
what are we going to do after this seq?
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:49 am
by skydyr
@white
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
I thought white's stones would all be working decently after this. None of black's groups are alive and white's stones are all working.
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
I'm not sure how white is supposed to follow up on this? Connecting under seems like it invites black to attack the left side stone on a large scale, maybe by capping at F10.
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:00 am
by andreyl
@white
what is wrong with this variation?
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:17 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@BLACK:
I suggest that we do some thinking on their time. I'm hoping to give them another trigger so that the game keeps moving along.
The current position is this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
And the only reasonable moves seem to be the cut at 'a' or 'b'. ( Although it is possible that in some sequences they might want to peep at 'c' first )
I think that if they cut low, the only reasonable reply is to atari like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
...and if they cut high, the only reasonable play is to extend like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
...and if they peep, the only play is to connect like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
Would it be ok with you guys if I turned the last three diagrams into a trigger?
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:40 am
by TegaiS
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:44 am
by emeraldemon
@white
I actually think either variation could be good for us. It seems to come down to splitting black vs. trying to weigh black down with one heavy group.
$$Bcm21 splitting
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 splitting
If we split like above, I could see black trying any of a, b, c. We have moves to harass the top black group at d or e also. I'm curious: could we start by attacking the top stones and wait to see the best play on the left?
$$Bcm21 Something like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Something like this?
The other way seems to lead to something like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21$$Bcm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm27
Black doesn't have to block at
directly, and I have no idea if attaching would be good, but the general plan would be to use aji to chase black's stones. We make a lot of solid territory on the top this way (15-20 points?) which appeals to me, but I may be too territory oriented. It does require us to be somewhat clever with our white stones on the left.
I honestly think either could work, I was originally imagining the split and fight but now I am not as sure. We thought going into this that fighting in this area should be good for us. I guess the question is which fight makes better use of our surrounding stones?
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:44 am
by skydyr
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:33 am
by emeraldemon
@white
It is hard to be sure of our play afterwards because black will get sente and has a lot of options on the left. I was wondering for example what if black tries to make the peep bad:
$$Bcm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm27
We could try switching to attack the two black stones on the left, I don't know what the best way would be.
Andrey mentioned black expanding from those two stones instead, I think his sequence is reasonable:
$$Bcm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm27
That second peep is tempting, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if black doesn't connect. If black plays like above we wouldn't cut right away...
or black might try a shoulder hit:
$$Bcm27 is the peep still good?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm27 is the peep still good?
I still like that cut, but it's hard for me to predict what black will do.
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:01 am
by skydyr
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:37 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@Kirby:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I suggest that we do some thinking on their time. I'm hoping to give them another trigger so that the game keeps moving along.
The current position is this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
And the only reasonable moves seem to be the cut at 'a' or 'b'. ( Although it is possible that in some sequences they might want to peep at 'c' first )
I think that if they cut low, the only reasonable reply is to atari like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
...and if they cut high, the only reasonable play is to extend like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
...and if they peep, the only play is to connect like this:
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
Would it be ok with you guys if I turned the last three diagrams into a trigger?
TegaiS wrote: I agree
Kirby? Any opinion?
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:49 pm
by Kirby
Sure, Joaz. That works for me.
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:15 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Trigger for white:
If you guys play
in any of the following diagrams, we will play
as shown.
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:55 pm
by andreyl
Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:18 am
by emeraldemon
$$Bcm21
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21
directly, and I have no idea if attaching would be good, but the general plan would be to use aji to chase black's stones. We make a lot of solid territory on the top this way (15-20 points?) which appeals to me, but I may be too territory oriented. It does require us to be somewhat clever with our white stones on the left.
in any of the following diagrams, we will play 
as shown.