110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:18 am

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:00 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:57 am

for obs only:

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:10 am

I think that this game is over. They are about equal in secure territory ( Black has about 70 secure points plus 5 prisoners; white has about 75 secure points plus 1 prisoner ) but white is almost tapped out. He simply has no more substantial opportunities to make territory - except for a small increase along the bottom. Whereas black has several opportunities, even if he lets the middle group live.

I marked the possible plays with squared stones below. Note that the majority are black's.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even worse for white, at least two of those plays are not only territory grabbers, but are also attacks on white's center group.

The optimist in me thinks that F7 looks like Kirby's best chance. He has to hope that his center can live, and maybe attack the weak G7/G8 stones, and perhpas utilize the aji in the C9 stone.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:23 am

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I think that this game is over. They are about equal in secure territory ( Black has about 70 secure points plus 5 prisoners; white has about 75 secure points plus 1 prisoner ) but white is almost tapped out. He simply has no more substantial opportunities to make territory - except for a small increase along the bottom. Whereas black has several opportunities, even if he lets the middle group live.

I marked the possible plays with squared stones below. Note that the majority are black's.

$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X |
$$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X |
$$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X |
$$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X |
$$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X |
$$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . ? . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . ? ? ? . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X ? ? X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O ? ? ? X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . ? ? . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . # . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . # X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . ? ? . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . ? ? X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . ? O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . ? ? . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . # ? ? . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . ? ? X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . ? O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . ? ? @ . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even worse for white, at least two of those plays are not only territory grabbers, but are also attacks on white's center group.

The optimist in me thinks that F7 looks like Kirby's best chance. He has to hope that his center can live, and maybe attack the weak G7/G8 stones, and perhpas utilize the aji in the C9 stone.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:47 am

It's annoying losing a group like that, but maybe I can make this a close game, still. I think I was ahead by a lot before losing this group on the right, so I might be able to narrow the gap, even though I was captured... Maybe.

I can't afford any more mistakes, though.

I could play something like this, and I don't think I'd have a problem living:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . W . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, if black responds locally, it makes it a bit harder to attack the marked stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O X O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . O . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . B . B . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 | $$ | . . . B . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O B . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess I will have to think about this a bit, and try to maintain a positive attitude.

...

I remember a game I played awhile ago - I think it was my second go tournament. I was playing as a 5k, and playing against someone that entered as 4k. I was surprised at how strong they seemed, and I was pretty certain that they were winning near the end of the game. Then a move came to me where I took a risk and put my stones in danger - but I was able to live and win the game.

I don't know if the same thing will happen here, but I cannot afford to make any mistakes. I've already paid a lot for my last set of mistakes. I need to push forward, and catch black's weakness.

It's harder to grab the flow when it gets later in the game... But I don't think that it's impossible. I think there's still time for me on this board.

I have to play not based on my feelings, but based on reading. I need to not just talk, but also have action. I need to find the flow.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 pm

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 pm

for obs only:

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:42 pm

Magicwand wrote:...
can you explain how black and white have equal territory?

Both of my original estimates were about 5 too high:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X W , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X C | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . C C C C X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X W C X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X W C W X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X W W W X X | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X W C W X | $$ | . . W X . . . . . . X X C W W W W W C | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . C C C C C X X C | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . C C C X C C C C | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . C X X C C O C C | $$ | . . . . . O O X O . . W X . X X X C C | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black = 65

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C C . . . . . . . . C C C C C | $$ | C C C C O O . . . . . . . . C C C O O | $$ | C C C . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | C C B O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | C O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | C C B O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X 1 | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | C C C C C O O X . . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | C C C O C C C O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | C C C C C B O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | C C C O C C C . . . . . . . C C O O . | $$ | C C C C C C C . . . . . C C C C C C C | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White bottom right 9 + bottom left 31 + upper left 22 + upper right 8 = 70.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:43 pm

Joaz:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:38 am

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:39 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X 2 . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:03 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-1 W-5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . . . . . X O O X X . . X O O O O X . | $$ | . . X O O X X X O , . . X . X O X . X | $$ | . O O X X X . . X . . . . . X X X X . | $$ | . . X O O O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . X | $$ | . O O . . . X . . . . . . . X X O . X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . O O X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . X O O O X X | $$ | . . . X . . . . O , O X X X X O . O X | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X X . O O O O O . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . X X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O O X O . . O X . X X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O . X X X O X O X . X . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . X O O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

jts · Post by **jts** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm

Life In 19x19

110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!

Re: 110: Marcus vs Kirby - Kirby's Revenge!