I've won against Kirby, after some missed chances by both sides.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[2400]OT[10/300 Canadian]
PW[venkman]PB[Kirby]DT[2011-11-06]PC[The KGS Go Server at
http://www.gokgs.com/]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]BL[2395.296]C[venkman [?\]: Have a good game!
Kirby [-\]: hi
]
;W[dp]WL[2389.191]C[Kirby [-\]: have a good game
]
;B[qp]BL[2390.048]
;W[dd]WL[2380.493]
;B[fq]BL[2387.138]
;W[hq]WL[2362.49]
;B[nq]BL[2361.814]C[Kirby [-\]: d17 just seemed interesting, i guess, joaz
]
;W[fp]WL[2336.98]
;B[cq]BL[2188.302]C[venkman [?\]: Not sure how to answer this...
]
;W[dq]WL[2243.258]C[venkman [?\]: Guess it must be here?
]
;B[cp]BL[2184.578]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Joseki is hane
]
;W[cr]WL[2177.974]C[venkman [?\]: Don't know. You got me out of book very early.
]
;B[br]BL[2181.78]
;W[dr]WL[2176.028]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: At the other end
]
;B[cn]BL[2171.573]
;W[do]WL[2151.308]
;B[cm]BL[2167.691]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: White looking overconcentrated here
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Black seems better by a bit
]
;W[qk]WL[2007.844]C[Mef [-\]: I think it's still even
]
;B[qi]BL[2070.529]
;W[qn]WL[2004.38]
;B[kq]BL[2065.338]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: I liked black pushing from other side
]
;W[nc]WL[1965.572]
;B[pf]BL[2055.31]C[Mef [-\]: You mean r7?
]
;W[jd]WL[1920.23]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Yeah, R7
venkman [?\]: at this stage i was worried about how strong the lower white group is
venkman [?\]: i was somewhat relieved that L3 wasn't at K3
venkman [?\]: but at the moment i don't think black has anything strong there
Kirby [-\]: i thought about k3 instead of l3, but i was wary of m3 because of the aji around q3
venkman [?\]: yes... corner aji is there, somewhere...
Kirby [-\]: so
venkman [?\]: well, my thinking was that black is committed to territory in the upper right
Kirby [-\]: hm
venkman [?\]: so a 3-3 invasion very soon would be good for W
venkman [?\]: i mean, let's look at it...
]
(;B[cf]BL[2047.667]
;W[df]WL[1899.593]C[Mef [-\]: I think in my heart I'd want r7 too (= but I I think B's sequence in game went a little smoother than r7-> r12 -> ?
Kirby [-\]: i wanted to do something on the top
venkman [?\]: as b lack?
Kirby [-\]: yep
venkman [?\]: hmm, don't know...
venkman [?\]: left side seems unattractive, agreed?
Kirby [-\]: c17 didnt' seem satisfying, and i felt wary aboutf17
Kirby [-\]: yeah
venkman [?\]: low strong stones and all...
Kirby [-\]: i felt the action was on top
venkman [?\]: switching to elsewhere at the top doesn't feel quite righat after this exchange
venkman [?\]: but hard to see a good continuation locally
Bilapidate [1k?\]: D15?
venkman [?\]: well, we can have a look at the result from this to decide whether it's really bad for black
]
(;B[dc]BL[1996.865]C[venkman [?\]: Is this some kind of known trick play?
Kirby [-\]: not that i know of
venkman [?\]: ok...
]
;W[cc]WL[1811.018]
;B[cd]BL[1984.446]
;W[ce]WL[1808.731]
;B[bd]BL[1982.283]
;W[bc]WL[1807.268]
;B[be]BL[1964.689]
;W[de]WL[1805.212]
;B[bb]BL[1954.699]
;W[db]WL[1782.306]
;B[ec]BL[1952.59]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Wow, new joseki
]
;W[cb]WL[1779.799]C[venkman [?\]: This was about what I'd read out. I figured this was OK for white?
Kirby [-\]: yeah, seems good for w
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Great for W
]
;B[cg]BL[1950.818]
;W[eb]WL[1772.441]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Dailyjoseki has no record of the contact play at D17
venkman [?\]: oops, forgot a16
]
;B[dg]BL[1900.999]
;W[ad]WL[1768.907]
;B[af]BL[1896.774]C[Kirby [-\]: what would you have played after d14, venkman?
]
;W[fc]WL[1759.843]C[Mef [-\]: almost feels like a trick
HKA [2d\]: net
Mef [-\]: a trick, except w did better
venkman [?\]: btw, if anyone wants control...
]
;B[ed]BL[1819.813]C[HKA [2d\]: no, this is not better
HKA [2d\]: this is disaster
]
;W[fe]WL[1745.22]
;B[eg]BL[1817.277]
;W[ff]WL[1743.394]
;B[on]BL[1792.448]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Maybe B at G4, get F5 in sente, make moyo
]
;W[ok]WL[1688.606]
;B[pl]BL[1786.073]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: BTW, I think you guys are saying the same thing
]
;W[pk]WL[1634.586]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Better for W, disater for B
Mef [-\]: HKA is saying W didn't just do better, w did much better (=
]
;B[rm]BL[1766.384]C[HKA [2d\]: "better", to me, implies some slight advant
HKA [2d\]: this is beyond that, it is not playable
HKA [2d\]: and e16 was a nonread
]
;W[qq]WL[1597.091]C[venkman [?\]: it felt like there should be something in the corner...
venkman [?\]: probably dozens of variations if we examine all semi-plausible starting poitns
]
;B[rq]BL[1751.621]C[Mef [-\]: The simplified shape is close to a joseki exchange....but with the capture w's stones are basically unattackable...while b's are...
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Is hane best here? I'd just extend
]
;W[rp]WL[1503.349]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Because of O3, W dies in corner, right? If B had extended...
Kirby [-\]: after s3 s4 s5 q4 t4 r5 s4, i thought you would q2
]
;B[ro]BL[1603.6]
;W[pp]WL[1494.36]
;B[sp]BL[1591.682]
;W[qo]WL[1491.877]C[Kirby [-\]: i don't know if anything works out from it
]
;B[rp]BL[1586.031]C[HKA [2d\]: well, white may be reading too much into the success at the top
Mef [-\]: this is not how I pictured the corner playing out....
HKA [2d\]: either that or he is stronger than me
Mef [-\]: o4?
Bilapidate [1k?\]: W has choice to make: go north or go west.
HKA [2d\]: o4 is possible
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Abandon R3 or R5/R6. Not easy choice
HKA [2d\]: but not good enough for this to have been a good plan I think
Mef [-\]: I don't think W was expecting S3
venkman [?\]: well, i suppose i can pull out those stones if i really want
Kirby [-\]: i guess i would just cut at q5
venkman [?\]: O4 or something
Kirby [-\]: true
venkman [?\]: but O4 P3 P4 Q3, and it's hard to see what White is achieving
venkman [?\]: So I decided I'd leave it for later...
Kirby [-\]: ok
venkman [?\]: P3 is probably ko for life or escape, that seems like a vaguely reasonable target
]
(;W[gh]WL[1179.91]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Q5 maybe?
HKA [2d\]: there was no plan
HKA [2d\]: not q5, a bad shape connection
HKA [2d\]: gain weight without muscle
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Maybe plan was to save the aji? Lots of it there.
Kirby [-\]: i htought about just f11 here
Kirby [-\]: but i thought it was a bad idea
venkman [?\]: I think if we both surround, my area is probably bigger
Kirby [-\]: yeah
venkman [?\]: O15 next is attractive
Kirby [-\]: for w i thought
Kirby [-\]: right?
]
(;B[lc]BL[1530.615]C[Mef [-\]: sacrificing a group to save aji sounds a little rough (=
venkman [?\]: Oh, O15? yes
venkman [?\]: i don't know. Is black supposed to live here, with W thickness to the left?
]
;W[ld]WL[1154.182]C[HKA [2d\]: yeah, I had a group, I will turn it inot aji in sente
Kirby [-\]: i mean, after g12, i would f11, but then if you g11 and i play say f10, you can o15 and it's too good for you
]
;B[md]BL[1517.265]
;W[mc]WL[1143.572]
;B[kd]BL[1508.204]
;W[le]WL[1134.697]
;B[kc]BL[1502.404]
;W[ke]WL[1132.704]C[Kirby [-\]: i have no idea
]
;B[jc]BL[1489.848]C[HKA [2d\]: I do not like this for white, unless he is sure he can kill
]
;W[ic]WL[1108.259]
;B[ib]BL[1475.683]
;W[id]WL[1102.992]
;B[mb]BL[1466.545]
;W[nb]WL[1099.146]C[Mef [-\]: it's starting to make P9 look more useful though
Bilapidate [1k?\]: W gets R17, maybe 3-stone wall becomes useful now.
HKA [2d\]: well, there is a difference between not giving black power to attack
HKA [2d\]: and giving black too much
Bilapidate [1k?\]: M18?
venkman [?\]: don't know...
]
(;B[kb]BL[1414.871]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: O15 is honte
]
;W[ma]WL[1022.794]
;B[la]BL[1411.995]
;W[lb]WL[1018.869]C[Mef [-\]: W was using the lower right to prepare for a ko (=
]
;B[ef]BL[1394.474]
(;W[ee]WL[1013.685]
;B[mb]BL[1392.196]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: LOL
HKA [2d\]: corner is open, o15 would be too small for white
HKA [2d\]: r17 is maybe doable, if white is not confident of the ko
]
;W[ei]WL[882.625]
;B[na]BL[1379.139]
;W[ci]WL[880.73]C[venkman [?\]: So I suppose the threat wasn't small, but it's still somewhat unsatisfying
]
;B[bi]BL[1369.038]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Wow. K quick to evaluate ko threat
]
;W[bj]WL[859.862]
;B[bh]BL[1365.207]C[HKA [2d\]: not really
Mef [-\]: e11 is a vague grasping at straws ko threat
HKA [2d\]: white has all the nasty of c5
]
;W[cj]WL[852.042]
;B[bg]BL[1357.864]C[HKA [2d\]: he might have been relieved
HKA [2d\]: still, a big threat
HKA [2d\]: r17 now I think
]
;W[qc]WL[817.305]
;B[pc]BL[1351.163]C[Mef [-\]: as long as w still has o15, r17 stings
Mef [-\]: s16?
venkman [?\]: Thank you Mef, I think that's the one I was looking for.
]
(;W[qd]WL[796.773]
;B[qe]BL[1347.379]
;W[pb]WL[793.668]
;B[ob]BL[1344.91]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: W going wrong direction, IMHO.
]
;W[re]WL[746.123]
;B[rf]BL[1341.831]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Builed wall on outside, let B live.
]
;W[rd]WL[744.16]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Wall along O-file makes big moyo
Mef [-\]: I thought you meant dying in the corner.....
Mef [-\]: as the wrong direction
Bilapidate [1k?\]: I did
Mef [-\]: (=
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Even living in corner is wrong dir
Bilapidate [1k?\]: B will move out into center around O12, stranding 3 W stones
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Cmon Kirby, tenuki!
HKA [2d\]: no reason not to take q18
Mef [-\]: S18?
HKA [2d\]: I think the corner invasion was fine - perhaps too soon
]
;B[pa]BL[1139.838]
;W[qg]WL[734.216]
;B[qf]BL[1135.335]C[HKA [2d\]: the three stones are too heavy to have real white moyo ambitions
]
;W[qb]WL[710.472]C[HKA [2d\]: now, does s18 give any joy
Mef [-\]: t15 makes an l shape...
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Ko, I think
HKA [2d\]: yes, white at least has a ko
]
;B[se]BL[1079.979]C[HKA [2d\]: death in the hane....
]
;W[qa]WL[678.113]C[HKA [2d\]: that is the problem
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Textbook dead now
HKA [2d\]: better to just take the stone in sente than do this
HKA [2d\]: how does black kill?
]
;B[sb]BL[1036.097]C[Mef [-\]: I think q19 at s18 would have been problematic?
HKA [2d\]: poor
HKA [2d\]: p17
]
;W[oc]WL[655.074]C[HKA [2d\]: I might have t 17 first
HKA [2d\]: but this should be fine
HKA [2d\]: I have a lot of books, but I do not have that textbook
Bilapidate [1k?\]: I missed P17
HKA [2d\]: so did Kirby
]
;B[nd]BL[957.754]
;W[oa]WL[651.769]
;B[od]BL[947.945]
;W[ma]WL[650.346]C[HKA [2d\]: I did not see it until whit played r19 myslef
Mef [-\]: ohhh, terrible ko
HKA [2d\]: this is why I would have just played t17
HKA [2d\]: still a little scary
HKA [2d\]: but I am a wimp
]
;B[fb]BL[845.479]C[Mef [-\]: R19-O16-T18 would've been an ok trade for B
]
;W[lb]WL[640.569]C[HKA [2d\]: of course
]
;B[gc]BL[840.807]C[HKA [2d\]: snapback
Mef [-\]: just h18?
Bilapidate [1k?\]: B could die on top side
HKA [2d\]: maybe l19 is playable
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Definitely
HKA [2d\]: white can live in the corner
HKA [2d\]: kill everyting
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Looks that way to me too
]
;W[ka]WL[543.538]
;B[fd]BL[833.922]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Venk agrees
]
;W[gd]WL[540.735]C[HKA [2d\]: dwonside is white gets a little thin with his ko threat sotnes
]
;B[fc]BL[825.472]C[HKA [2d\]: kirby should try to do something with that before resigning
HKA [2d\]: h17...
Mef [-\]: does W need to respond?
HKA [2d\]: well
]
;W[hc]WL[415.303]C[Mef [-\]: just fix on the outside
HKA [2d\]: if it is dead already
]
;B[ge]BL[814.093]
;W[fa]WL[412.801]C[HKA [2d\]: then h11 is a nice declaration of victory
]
;B[fg]BL[803.597]
;W[gb]WL[400.417]
;B[gg]BL[800.717]C[HKA [2d\]: take em off no fuss
HKA [2d\]: this is poor
HKA [2d\]: f11 maybe
Mef [-\]: now maybe B can run E11 into p9......
HKA [2d\]: something
]
;W[em]WL[368.878]C[Mef [-\]: but it's hard
HKA [2d\]: very
]
;B[gq]BL[784.947]C[HKA [2d\]: particulary witht he c5 gap aji
]
;W[gp]WL[364.774]
;B[hr]BL[782.61]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Even if B kills P9, is he not behind?
HKA [2d\]: this is tilt
HKA [2d\]: now white gets stronger
]
;W[ir]WL[352.166]
;B[iq]BL[779.685]
;W[hp]WL[349.81]
;B[jr]BL[777.985]
;W[gr]WL[346.515]
;B[is]BL[777.011]
;W[fr]WL[345.297]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: W playing safe now
]
;B[mk]BL[768.432]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: He knows he has win
HKA [2d\]: well this is where I REALLY get nervous
HKA [2d\]: this is a good move
Bilapidate [1k?\]: This is where I get overconfident
HKA [2d\]: and this is why I think any ambitions for moyo for white were unrealistic
]
;W[mj]WL[271.107]C[HKA [2d\]: too easy to pop the baloon by playing with this yarn
Mef [-\]: This is where I wish I counted more
]
;B[nj]BL[753.068]
;W[nk]WL[254.261]
;B[lk]BL[748.157]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: O11
HKA [2d\]: might be able to sack them
HKA [2d\]: and kill the top black group
]
;W[ni]WL[206.1]
;B[oj]BL[744.544]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Sac the black stones
Mef [-\]: q11
HKA [2d\]: q11 is nice
HKA [2d\]: good call
HKA [2d\]: still maybe get an attack but give up less
HKA [2d\]: nice
HKA [2d\]: really good idea
Bilapidate [1k?\]: P11;Q10;Q11;R12?
]
;W[oi]WL[117.424]C[HKA [2d\]: ahhh
]
;B[pj]BL[737.657]C[HKA [2d\]: my stupid plan
]
;W[pi]WL[93.79]
;B[qj]BL[735.598]
;W[qh]WL[92.232]
;B[rk]BL[727.735]
;W[ri]WL[89.312]
;B[rj]BL[726.089]C[HKA [2d\]: p13 I guess
]
;W[og]WL[54.275]C[HKA [2d\]: but the lower right is huge
HKA [2d\]: this is not how you wrap up a win
Mef [-\]: q11 n11 p11 m10 r12 is what I wanted, but this looks like it might work
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Still has aji at R8
HKA [2d\]: I think r8 just makes it worse
HKA [2d\]: plus s12 is sente for white
HKA [2d\]: mef had the winning move i think
]
;B[ng]BL[636.468]C[HKA [2d\]: i guess this is big enough
HKA [2d\]: but one mistake and Kirby is in business
Mef [-\]: it's a fine line for w to walk
Bilapidate [1k?\]: W N11, and where are B's eyes?
HKA [2d\]: yes should be ok
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Cmon, Venk, play solid
]
;W[mi]WL[255.591]OW[9]
;B[of]BL[603.15]
;W[pg]WL[230.765]OW[8]C[Mef [-\]: hm
]
;B[jn]BL[553.232]
;W[im]WL[191.339]OW[7]
;B[jm]BL[543.179]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Another safe W move
]
;W[oq]WL[176.007]OW[6]C[HKA [2d\]: so much for that
]
;B[qr]BL[534.58]
;W[pr]WL[174.022]OW[5]
;B[pq]BL[530.846]
;W[jl]WL[167.388]OW[4]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Why do rich men pick fights?
Loki [3k\]: because fighting is fun
]
;B[kl]BL[509.113]
;W[qq]WL[165.256]OW[3]C[Mef [-\]: I lazily count W+15-20?
]
;B[rh]BL[503.081]
;W[rg]WL[152.84]OW[2]
;B[pq]BL[500.173]
;W[co]WL[137.418]OW[1]
;B[bo]BL[496.777]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: If things go wrong in the center, B M12 could be a problem for W
]
;W[qq]WL[300]OW[10]C[Mef [-\]: oh wait, didn't look at captures....make that 25
]
;B[rr]BL[491.063]
;W[bs]WL[292.114]OW[9]
;B[ar]BL[486.574]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: B3!
]
;W[bl]WL[263.738]OW[8]
;B[bm]BL[480.349]C[HKA [2d\]: komi.....
HKA [2d\]: make it thirty....
]
;W[in]WL[184.275]OW[7]
;B[jk]BL[471.242]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Back to solid
HKA [2d\]: t12 is actually very big
HKA [2d\]: maybe double sente over there
]
;W[il]WL[149.444]OW[6]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: T13 by B is interesting
]
;B[ki]BL[453.901]
;W[lh]WL[130.128]OW[5]
;B[kh]BL[449.321]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: M13
]
;W[lg]WL[101.197]OW[4]
;B[si]BL[446.487]
;W[sg]WL[98.854]OW[3]
;B[io]BL[442.339]
;W[ik]WL[72.624]OW[2]
;B[ej]BL[431.708]
;W[fi]WL[57.646]OW[1]
;B[dl]BL[415.892]
;W[ek]WL[300]OW[10]
;B[el]BL[413.164]C[Mef [-\]: I figure Everything to the right of L line cancels except maybe the 4 stones captures stones for b.....w has 7x4 in the top left, 10 on bottom, let's say 10 in the middle..+10 for capture and komi so 60...B has 8 + 8 for those captures.... so 60 vs.16....eh might be 40...
]
;W[fk]WL[280.411]OW[9]
;B[fl]BL[407.933]
;W[jj]WL[277.237]OW[8]
;B[kk]BL[394.653]
;W[ip]WL[268.005]OW[7]
;B[jp]BL[392.412]
;W[cl]WL[225.638]OW[6]
;B[dm]BL[328.029]
;W[am]WL[212.508]OW[5]
;B[an]BL[324.892]
;W[al]WL[211.331]OW[4]
;B[ap]BL[298.528]
;W[kj]WL[197.605]OW[3]
;B[lj]BL[293.661]
;W[li]WL[192.343]OW[2]
;B[ih]BL[275.41]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: W going to use his corner aji!
]
;W[ii]WL[181.538]OW[1]
;B[ji]BL[266.335]
;W[ij]WL[300]OW[10]
;B[ig]BL[253.739]
;W[kg]WL[295.963]OW[9]
;B[hh]BL[235.567]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Moves like K4, L7 and R8 look like fun
]
;W[km]WL[262.766]OW[8]
;B[ml]BL[228.154]
;W[np]WL[235.474]OW[7]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]:
]
;B[nr]BL[214.963]C[Mef [-\]: K4 looks challenging to me, never been able to balance the stones d=
]
;W[nn]WL[201.152]OW[6]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: @Loki: you were right.
Kirby [-\]: even if i kill you, i think i am behind by 20 or so points
venkman [?\]: Thank you for the game.
Kirby [-\]: thank you for playing
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Thanks from the peanut gallery
venkman [?\]: No idea what the count is
Kirby [-\]: you are ahead by at least 20 or 30, i think
Loki [3k\]: Bilapidate: What do you mean?
Bilapidate [1k?\]: More
Kirby [-\]: i counted 80 something for me, and over 100 for you
venkman [?\]: Don't think it's quite that much, but I felt I was a bit ahead
venkman [?\]: Never have time for counting since I think too long...
Bilapidate [1k?\]: @Loki: Why rich men pick fights
Kirby [-\]: i think it was silly of me up on top
Kirby [-\]: that was a big mistake
venkman [?\]: Yes... I probably should have ignored your very first ko threat
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Kirby: why D17?
venkman [?\]: Got into hot water for a while
venkman [?\]: Brief review?
Kirby [-\]: sure
])
(;W[rd]
;B[pb]C[venkman [?\]: uh, but how to continue...
]
(;W[qe]
;B[pe]
;W[qf]
;B[qg]
;W[rg]
;B[rh]
;W[pg]
;B[qh]C[Mef [-\]: can W just jump?
])
(;W[qg]C[venkman [?\]: tempting
Kirby [-\]: well, i think i'm going to get going. i hate to leave in the middle of your review, but i've got an appointment. thanks again for playing
Kirby [-\]: see ya
venkman [?\]: that's alright
venkman [?\]: bedtime for me too
Mef [-\]: I was wondering
Mef [-\]: abotu jsut after this spot
]
;B[qf]
;W[rf])))
(;W[ka]
;B[ee]C[venkman [?\]: This must be good for me, right?
Kirby [-\]: yeah
]
(;W[qg])
(;W[qc]C[Kirby [-\]: seemed a mess
Kirby [-\]: i wonder if i could do something better with m17
])))
(;B[la])
(;B[lb]
;W[hb]
;B[jb]
;W[ka]
;B[nd]
;W[qc]C[venkman [?\]: m18 i think doesn't work, or do you have a better line?
]))
(;B[fi]
;W[gi]
(;B[fj]
;W[ne]C[Kirby [-\]: yes
venkman [?\]: better for W I think
])
(;B[me]
;W[ld]C[Kirby [-\]: that's why i figured i couldn't do f11
]
;B[fj]C[venkman [?\]: still OK for W?
Kirby [-\]: seems good for w, yeah
]
;W[qg]C[venkman [?\]: was hoping for this one after the Q8 peep
Kirby [-\]: cool
])))
(;W[fi]C[venkman [?\]: This?
Kirby [-\]: no
]))
(;B[dg]C[venkman [?\]: well, there is some kind of line where black gets overconcentrated on the side, i think, so I was hoping I'd rediscover that
]
;W[cg]C[Kirby [-\]: but not f17 for some reason
venkman [?\]: Kinda was hoping for this...
Kirby [-\]: i see
]
;B[be]C[venkman [?\]: err, how did it go...
]
;W[cd]
;B[ch]
;W[bg]
;B[ef]
;W[bf]
;B[de]
;W[ce]C[venkman [?\]: that's not it, is it?
venkman [?\]: good thing you played something else in the game
Kirby [-\]: hehe, i'm not sure
])
(;B[de]C[venkman [?\]: urgh
venkman [?\]: what happens here?
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Joseki is W C15
Mef [-\]: B needs a ladder
Mef [-\]: but I think he has it
venkman [?\]: E15 must be possible as well I think?
Kirby [-\]: probably just depends on the ladder
Kirby [-\]: what about before c14
Kirby [-\]: is c14 different than what you'd play?
]
;W[ee]
;B[ce]C[Bilapidate [1k?\]: Leaves too many cutting points
]
;W[ef]
;B[cd]
;W[cc]
;B[dc]
;W[ed]
;B[bc]
;W[cb]
;B[bb]
;W[db]C[Kirby [-\]: i still prefer w on top
venkman [?\]: yeah, the wall seems useful
venkman [?\]: i'd probably try for this as white if black played d15
Kirby [-\]: so how about backing up
venkman [?\]: black needs another move to avoid being shut in
]))
(;B[ss]C[Kirby [-\]: why is black committed to territory in the upper right?
venkman [?\]: just q18 feels slow
Kirby [-\]: what do you mean by that?
venkman [?\]: well, three stones encircling an area quite closely
Bilapidate [1k?\]: Feels small
venkman [?\]: if white takes away all that corner/side territory, it's seems like a big loss
Mef [-\]: I can never tell if a move like q18 is slow or calm (=
]
;W[qc]C[venkman [?\]: but the top right is almost black territory, and letting white take it all away... i'd be unhappy with that
Kirby [-\]: ok
]
;B[pc]
;W[pb]
(;B[qd]C[Kirby [-\]: so just q18 or something for black?
]
(;W[rc])
(;W[rb]
;B[rc]
;W[qb]C[venkman [?\]: gote though
]))
(;B[ob]
;W[qb]
;B[oc]
;W[re]
;B[nd]
;W[qf]
;B[pg]C[venkman [?\]: doesn't seem like black's wall is terribly useful?
]
;W[ok]C[venkman [?\]: maybe black has a better sequence
]))
(;B[lc]C[venkman [?\]: this maybe? more active than q18?
Kirby [-\]: so basically, since the stones are close to surrounding territory, it is committed?
venkman [?\]: that's what my thinking was, yes
Kirby [-\]: ok
Kirby [-\]: thanks
venkman [?\]: i never really like to play this one, but maybe it's right?
])
(;B[oo]C[venkman [?\]: could also defend&attack here
venkman [?\]: but white just jumps out...
Kirby [-\]: i like that better thn p6, i guess
venkman [?\]: i think this is some kind of standard shape
venkman [?\]: may be slightly overconcentrated with L3
Kirby [-\]: it never even occurred to me
])
(;B[fc]C[venkman [?\]: don't know about this... seems to go against some form of logic, but if we decide that the left side is uninteresting...?
])
(;B[hc]C[Kirby [-\]: hm, yeah
venkman [?\]: probably better here though
Kirby [-\]: why play on the left, good idea
]))