Life In 19x19

In the game Black pincered White with 23 below. You answered with 24 and commented, "seems funny... but I don't really have a solid plan". When Black played 25, you slid to 26 with the comment, "I feel this stone is the weaker one and so the first I should help". The comments reveal that White is not grasping the overall or the local situation. The overall situation is that White has a position in the upper left that should be developed if possible. Locally, Black has a pincer stone that has no surrounding help. As a result White wants to counter attack the pincer and further develop the top. One of these aims would be nice, managing to do both would be even better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm23
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . 1 , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One typical idea would be to play 2 below, pressing Black down in the corner. White continues lightly with 4 and 6. If Black jumps out to 7, White can cap the pincer stone with 8. If Black switches 7 to 8, White blocks the side with 8 at "a". Black will invade the upper position somehow but White can have fun attacking Whatever stones are played.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a 4 . 6 . . 8 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . 1 , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The actual play at 24 in the game would not have been bad if White had been able to come up with an appropriate plan. When Black played 1 below, White decided that there were already two weak White groups. This was wrong on two counts: the White stones were not yet separated, and they were not weak!. The appropriate answer was the jump to 2 below. Again this is looking toward attacking the pincer stone. It expects something like 3, which is answered with 4. White happily gives up the marked stone in order to close off the top in good shape, ending with Black drawing back at 'a' and White making the hanging connection at 'b'. Next White is going to attack the pincer or further build up the top.

Note that if Black ever plays something like 'c', White can just answer at 'd', starting to close off the corner while preventing Black from settling himself. Black has not made any shape yet, White can slide in from the left and prevent Black from making eyes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . a W 3 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . B , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . c . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee wrote:Hi oca,

did you consider R13 ?

did you consider K3 direction ?

K3 direction feels bigger.

ridiculous.

find the correct follow-up.

I don't considered R13, but I like it !
and I agree for the K3 direction...

for " find the correct follow-up.", maybe white at F5 ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm28
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . Y . . . . Y , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . Y Y . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

ez4u wrote:... The comments reveal that White is not grasping the overall or the local situation...

Hi ez4u,

Sure, I was lost ther! thank you very much for your help !

4 new games for me... 3 went very fine, one of them was a 9 stones handicap against a 4kyu, I'm happy I won that one, because I used to lose all my handicap games...

so 3 victories and... one, hudge crash, in a game that started with a 5-6 move that I failed to handle... to much influence and my invasion died...

here is that "big crash game"
Any comments welcome. I suppose I'm all wrong since 14, and that I choosed the wrong joseki in the bottom/left corner...

Hi oca,

(I know you played -- we can still learn from your opponent's mistakes) Wrong shape -- still weakness at M17.

- common bad habit. self-reduced liberties. Fixed weakness for here.

why did you reject D16 ?

if at D16, you get a broken shape. But you were trying to live ?

See amatterof's thread

very difficult to recover after this death. Actually, I feel learning about the upper left corner is worth this game.
See amatterof's basic dead corner shape.

Well, don't feel too bad as black attacked that top left corner very well for a 13k. Taking the corner for 16 does allow black a nice moyo, I would think about d8 attach instead. Black's c16 is a powerful move as your corner is surrounded, but you shouldn't die. Perhaps c17 should be b16 or d16. j13 at j14 could maybe come out, though there is a danger black ataris and blocks and then lets you capture g13 for a false eye and you are still dead. So maybe 50 at h14 is the right way to come out. Another idea is a lot earlier to play c15 at c14 so you don't get surrounded.

@Eldee,
Yes, I was trying to live... bad idea ... I wish I played that D16.
thanks for the link to amatterof's thread !


@Uberdude,
Thanks for all whose idea... after this game I played this one in which I also tryied to live in the corner at , and this time it worked for me (but was still scary)

I was also happy to find move 165

It's always nice to cut off a big fat blob of stones.

20+ points for a mid-to-endgame move is pretty fancy.

Hi oca,

A15 or B16 ?

B14 ?

?

D13, if you want to do anything with those stones.

completely wrong idea. Those H17 stones are -- pick your favorite analogy:
either "junk food", which nobody wants or cares about; or, dead bugs on the wind sheild.
You're hurting o16.

confused. At least K14 instead. You're only helping , and hurting o16 more and more.

EdLee wrote:Hi oca,

A15 or B16 ?

B14 ?

?

D13, if you want to do anything with those stones.

completely wrong idea. Those H17 stones are -- pick your favorite analogy:
either "junk food", which nobody wants or cares about; or, dead bugs on the wind sheild.
You're hurting o16.

confused. At least K14 instead. You're only helping , and hurting o16 more and more.

Thanks Edlee,

That weird was a tentative of

1 : hit on the nose 'not so tesuji in this case'
2 : ???
3 : benefit

oca wrote:That weird was a tentative of

Hi oca,

If connects with the bamboo at D13,
then you have miai of A15 connect,
and push out with a broken shape at E13.

Your D15 and E14 are cutting stones --
after , the fight is finished.

EdLee wrote:

oca wrote:That weird was a tentative of

Hi oca,

If connects with the bamboo at D13,
then you have miai of A15 connect,
and push out with a broken shape at E13.

Your D15 and E14 are cutting stones --
after , the fight is finished.

this looks so natural now that you told me...

But a15 doesn't connect.

Uberdude wrote:But a15 doesn't connect.

houps... that's right...

JOSEKI TIME

I'm happy today... just played two good games, and at finally reached 12k after so many bounces between 13k and 14k...
So maybe it's a good time to improve my understanding of the joseki I just know the sequence...

Let's start with 'Hoshi', approched by a low, one space move.

I "know" these 8 variations...