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Prokovich game

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=1443

Page 18 of 33

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:40 pm
by Chew Terr
I think white is going to start the fight preemptively with a hane.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:03 pm
by mitsun
I think the hane at a would be an overplay (B just cuts), so I would simply play W1, leaving a and b as miai. If B cuts and captures four stones, W gets to squeeze. If B extends, W can connect, then regard W1 as a forcing move, giving up two stones if B later cuts them off. This would still be a difficult fight for W, but it looks playable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O b O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:11 pm
by Chew Terr
Hmm, I thought that black could not cut immediately after the hane, making the fight more interesting. However, I may have misread...

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:35 am
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 ACTUAL GAME: Move 54
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:04 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this is only move i can see that is possible.

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:07 pm
by hyperpape
My first thought: this is a pro game?! I can't say I know that this move is bad, but the shape is so ugly.

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:07 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
hyperpape wrote:My first thought: this is a pro game?! I can't say I know that this move is bad, but the shape is so ugly.


Some are born ugly, some achieve ugliness, some have ugliness thrust upon them.

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:58 am
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 ACTUAL GAME: Move 55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:51 am
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm56 ACTUAL GAME: Move 56
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:37 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm56
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe something like this, to preserve connection and deny eyespace? Seems like an odd space, but it might work?

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:49 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Why not just push?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:54 pm
by Chew Terr
Dusk Eagle wrote:Why not just push?

Greed, wanting all of the eyespace for myself... After just watching Razorbrain's video on greed and thoughtlessness, I wonder if perhaps I should have stuck with the simpler answer...

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:14 pm
by dfan
Dusk Eagle wrote:Why not just push?

Why not indeed?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 ACTUAL GAME: Move 57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:19 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My personal instinct is to preserve the connection while getting a bit out, but it seems awfully passive...

Re: Prokovich game

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:06 pm
by Magicwand
chew: below variation also look passive to me.
i rather have white stone at 'a'
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Page 18 of 33

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