27. topazg (1d) vs. Numsgil (8k)

[Chew Terr]

Outnumber? You mean more stones locally? Or winning point-wise?

MW can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure he means locally. Assuming neither player has horrible shape or anything, the player who has the most supporting stones locally will come tend to come out ahead in local fights. It's like a cross-cut. If you already have a stone near enough to act as an extension from the cross-cut, then it's as though you got a free move in the fight.

By simplicity, I think he is talking part about pruning, and part about ignoring simple good moves for needlessly complex variations. For example, if someone peeps at your wall, it is usually best to connect, even if you CAN do something different. If the alternative plan isn't better than the obvious for some clear and definable reason, then stick with the logical, straightforward response.

Advice aside (as I'm not really qualified to give any), this was a really good game. It was fun to watch someone around my level play 'even' against someone stronger. That top left is a really painfully confusing joseki fight, which I've learned in the Big Brother game. I really need to study it, but it's intimidating. Both players did really well, and I applaud the attitudes of both. Numsgil was the implacable legionare, unwilling to give ground against an intimidating force, and Topazg was Ender, seeing a swarm of ships form a cloud around a planet, thinking 'You mean I have to win THAT!?'

Great game, hard fought.

[Magicwand]

outnumbered ~ locally
like i said...i do not start my handycap game with fighting.
i always wait till i am stronger.
you should do the same.

[Numsgil]

Additionally, I think new players through 5k (and sometimes me, too) are unable to read deeply because they think of too many (bad) options (not enough pruning). But I think at my level (1k) it's more common to read incorrectly because we miss a good move (too much/incorrect pruning).

Hmm...

So taking the number of different variations in my tactics and variations diagrams as an indication of how many different variations I consciously read out when I consider a move (how "wide" I read), is that more than most high kyu/dan players here do when they play a game?

Maybe as you grow from DDK through the SDK, your breadth of reading increases, but then there's some watershed point where you understand enough of the game on an intuitive level that the breadth actually decreases since you can weed out bad variations. Then reading becomes deeper instead of wider. But then as you say the danger becomes culling out moves without even considering them first.

Anyway, an interesting idea I hadn't thought about before.

[amnal]

1. Just for observers to be aware, when I play handicap games I don't play passively or aggressively, I play normally. I noticed comments that I was playing passively, and the assumption being that I was playing that way because of the komi. Actually I was playing the first ~70 moves as if it was an even game (my philosophy for handicap games is that if the handicap is reasonable both players can play normally and have a 50/50 chance of winning. Interesting to contrast this with topazg's philosophy that the stronger player should complicate things).

While I probably played a bit more passively since I knew topazg would rip apart any weaknesses, looking over most of my moves they seem to "flow" with my internal gut. Which tells me that I probably play too passively in general. Which is interesting because I was definitely looking for places to take sente.

So something to work on. How do you actually work on this? My guess is becoming comfortable with local follow-up moves if a local move is ignored. eg: I'm not at all comfortable with ignoring a monkey jump, but there's definitely cases where a monkey jump should be ignored to take a larger point elsewhere.

I think there are two distinct intentions to the phrase 'as if in an even game', and that you may have the wrong one.

The wrong way is to play as if in an even game locally. These moves may be good locally, but actually be rubbish becuase they ignore the handicap nature of the game. I think these may be the moves perceived as passive, perhaps because your even game play is actually not good - too passive even *in* an even game (though I didn't look at the game in detail, so I'm not sure).

The correct way is to play as if in an even game over the whole board - which in this case means attacking. To the even game mentality, Christmas has come early, and Santa has brought some free moves. For the stronger player, it means complicating things; when well behind but still playing, this *is* the correct way to play. It does *not* mean overplaying, just playing normally in a way that encourages mistakes from the opponent.

EDIT: To play less passively, ignore your opponents moves. This doesn't have to be in a big way, or in particularly complex sequences. For example, ignore the 4-2 slide to your 4-4 point. I think it's good to get in the mentality of making your opponent work for you, not working for them, and that these simple things will help you get a feel for doing the same thing in more complex situations.

[Violence]

Glanced at the game.

Topagz! Stealing my ideas and sequences... *hoards more tricks*

[topazg]

Glanced at the game.

Topagz! Stealing my ideas and sequences... *hoards more tricks*

Hahahaha, which one?

[Violence]

The trick with the two space high pincer from komoku after making a keima.