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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 19 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:19 pm
by Gresil
I'm unlikely to drop by again before Tuesday, so here's a trigger. If Shape and Aji approve,

I extend to N12.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:04 am
by shapenaji
Numsgil wrote:
shapenaji wrote:Approved.
Let weak walk along weak


Hey shapenaji:
That's not a phrase/proverb I've heard before. There's also not a lot of references to it online.

Care to expand? Like presumably you mean that weak groups should escape enclosure by pressuring other weak groups to gain tempo. I'm just wondering if there's a whole iceberg of knowledge with the phrase/proverb acting as a mnemonic device. On a larger scale I'm roughly familiar with attack and defense and running, but it would be interesting to have your take on, say, the current board position here, since there's a lot going on with strong and weak groups and running.


It's a Korean proverb, the basic idea is that weak groups balance each other, in this case they pushed us over their group, forcing their group to come out as well. Had their group been strong, they could have continued pushing from the outside. But they have to take a bunch of extra measures so as not to get cut off.

As far as what I think of the position, I'm worried that we'll end up building their right side... We really want to get a move over there, and if we do, the balance of territory should favor us.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:06 am
by shapenaji
Approved.
I can't really see any reason why you wouldn't get this move in... if they don't solidly extend now, we get tons of forcing moves

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:29 am
by topazg
Gresil's trigger is approved ...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:07 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Just to make sure that everybody is on the same page, the position is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 70 W35 B 32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...and we are waiting for Violence to express an opinion on the marked stone.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:48 am
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:25 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 72A W35 B 32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . W X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I know it tends to be bad form to touch weak groups, but the group I'm touching is not weak. I was trying to find a sente way to reinforce connection and buy eyeshape, and this is the best I could find. I wanted to jump from the south group, but I'm not sure we should leave this group alone, yet. Black's group doesn't gain too much from defending, so hopefully it's not dreadfully aji-keshi. I'm tempted to jump down from this group next, to try to engulf the black group, but I'm skeptical as to whether or not it would work. More reading...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:02 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I don't approve.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 72B W35 B 34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . C X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like this continuation. Everybody runs: black makes territory, white does not.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 72A W35 B 32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . W X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . 2 5 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O 3 . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The keima from R16 to Q14 has a weakness, and if we encourage black to play :b1: above, that weakness disappears.

I'm looking at the following possibilities:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X 4 6 . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O 2 X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . 1 W 5 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X 3 . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O 2 X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . 1 W . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:25 am
by shapenaji
Approved.

Sorry for the delay everyone.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:51 am
by Joaz Banbeck
shapenaji wrote:
Sorry for the delay everyone.



No problem. So you made it to Oregon ok?

Pro opinion of move 67

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:52 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Back on move 67, Gresil played this:

Gresil wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 67A: W 33, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Topazg changed it to this:

topazg wrote:...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 67B: W 35, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . C . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I thought that this was also a mistake, and posted this:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:...

My guess is that Violence will happily pay 1 stone to do this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 67B: W 35, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . C . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For beginners:
Lets look at the plans and goals and direction for each of the five groups that are involved in this fight.

1) This long group has at least one eye in the middle, and can easily make another over on the left side ( these areas marked with squares ). It has no defensive concerns. Offensively, it wants to split the two white groups that don't yet have eyes. The gap though which it must push to do this is big, and cannot be closed by white for several moves yet. So this group is in no hurry to act, either on offence or defense.
Capping, as Topazg wants to do, while not a bad move, is a low priority move played at the expense of higher priority moves.

FWIW, a secondary direction of play for this group is sliding into the corner because, if nothing else, it is a corner. It may become a higher priority if the white group in the lower left starts needing the corner for eye space.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O B O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O B . B O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O B . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . B . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B S . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O B . B . . W . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . S B . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . W . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR G9 J7 }
$$ { AR G7 J5 }
$$ { AR C5 B3 }[/go]




2) This group has no eyes, and is running. Its direction is primarily away from the strong group to the west, trying to enclose the eyeless black stones to the east. A secondary direction is to go southward just to stay alive. It does not really want to run southward, as this means running along past an enemy wall, but it will do so if it must to stay alive.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X W X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X W W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . W . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . W . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR L10 O10 }
$$ { AR K9 K8 }[/go]



3) This black group has no eyes yet, but can get them in gote if necessary ( around the area marked with the squares ). The fact that J19 is sente to kill the white group to the west gives black just enough room to do this. Making eyes in gote is not desirable except as a last ditch measure.
This group is just barely behind the sector line, and would like to get out, as doing so threatens both of its neighbors. It is probably best to go out between the white groups without touching either, so as to be equally threatening to both, thus keeping white uncertain about where to defend.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O B S S S . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O B B S S . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O B S B . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . B . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR L12 N10 }
$$ { LN K10 N14 }[/go]



4) This white group has easy life in gote around the area marked with a square if it has first play to get to L18. Moves like Q15 and P14 may help, although they are aji-keshi.
When living involves aji-keshi and/or losing sente, it is a last ditch alternative.
The best play for this group is to run out to the south, threatening the black neighbors to the west as it runs.

It would also like to interfere with black's potential to make territory along the right side ( in the area marked with the triangles ) by getting there first. But this is a distant fantasy.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . S . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . W X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . W . . W , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . W . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . T . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR N14 O11 }[/go]


5) This group already has eye space ( in the area indicated by the square ) and can make territory going southward. Doing this also endangers the white group to its west.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . S . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , B . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . B . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR Q13 Q10 }[/go]


Summary: so when all five groups are examined, we can see that black has three groups with the following directions of play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . S . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ { AR Q13 Q10 }
$$ { AR L12 N10 }
$$ { AR G7 J5 }[/go]


The leftmost and rightmost groups have eye space and are not in danger of being surrounded. The middle one has no eyes, and is behind the sector line.
Furthermore, playing from the left group encourages white's neighboring group to play in the direction that it wants to go. Playing from the middle group impedes that.

Black's play at M11 is a no brainer, IMHO.

...


Nonetheless, Violence approved the move. This greatly confused me. So while I was at congress, I asked Yilun Yang about the choice between the two moves. He said that neither was best...

For Topazg and observers:
...and without pausing he then said that the best move in the position was this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 67A: W 33, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I wasn't asking for that kind of information, but he thinks and moves faster than I can talk, so I know about it, and it seems unfair of me to know it unilaterally. So, Topazg, now you know it too. This is the purpose of this hidden paragraph.
Now back to the main idea, comparing just two moves...


...but when I persisted on an evaluation of the two moves, he said that it was best to let white's middle group run south and not try to cap him with K8.

Re: Pro opinion of move 67

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:16 pm
by topazg
Joaz Banbeck wrote:...but when I persisted on an evaluation of the two moves, he said that it was best to let white's middle group run south and not try to cap him with K8.


This is interesting, thanks very much for posting it - did he explain why?

I mean, judging on his choice of move, my gut feeling is that he feels that top right White group is really attackable, so chasing the middle one out would make contextual sense, but I'm guessing at his reasoning - did he provide any?

And did he pick M11 as the way to do it if it all? Because to me, M11 still just feels slack :P

Re: Pro opinion of move 67

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:52 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
topazg wrote:[... his reasoning - did he provide any?


Sorry. He did not elaborate and I did not ask. He was just passing by, and I felt that to persist would have been rude, for it was neither scheduled or paid for.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:52 pm
by shapenaji
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
shapenaji wrote:
Sorry for the delay everyone.



No problem. So you made it to Oregon ok?


Yup, made it here on the 9th, we've been settling in, even got a chance to swing by the Corvallis club amidst all of our settling in. (I even have a rival in the form of SeJoon Park, which is pretty awesome) the Corvallis club has a great relaxed atmosphere and on the whole, it's a good place for go. Also swung by the Eugene go club, which I might attend occasionally,

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:07 am
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 73A W35 B 34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . B O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The only move I can imagine. Alas, it leads to a type of situation in which I'm scarcely 15 kyu level.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 73A W35 B 34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X 3 . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O 2 X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The next time I get back to studying go I think I'm going to want a recommendation of a source of problems that deals with just this category of situations—third line contact formations with hanes and the related liberty issues.
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