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Re: question about a clamp on second line

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:16 pm
by Uberdude
oca wrote:
I tryied that one but didn't liked :b4:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . c O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X a . . . . , .
$$ | X X 2 . 3 X . O . . .
$$ | . O 4 1 . b . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
but seems we cannot have it all....
If by all you mean kill every black stone, then yes that's an unreasonable expectation of a fair outcome for you. :D But that above diagram is already REALLY good for white and in fact black isn't even alive in the corner and he might even die, so you might get it all after all! Btw 4 is a mistake, black should play a and white answers at b to get out into the centre*, then playing at 4 might be good (but probably not) or some move on the outside. If black plays 4 immediately white is happy to play a.

*(for more advanced players) black at a is not the only choice here and exchanging for b could be a bad exchange due to other options using the aji at c. Particularly if black wedged instead of connect for 2 then this sort of variation looks interesting (so maybe white won't cut at 7 but answer on 2nd line to avoid giving black 8 and 10 in sente, but then he has other problems, depends on left side). If black resistances like this are effective then perhaps white should play 5 at b directly.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . 9 a . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 6 O 0 . . . . . .
$$ | . O 7 8 . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , .
$$ | X X 4 . 5 X . O . . .
$$ | . O 2 1 . b . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

Re: question about a clamp on second line

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:46 pm
by TheBigH
@ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , .
$$ | X X 4 2 a X 8 W . . .
$$ | 9 O 3 1 7 5 6 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
This solution of yours ends with white living in sente. Black cannot omit connecting at a, because if white pushed through there then black could not avoid being cut. The marked white stone is very helpful for white in this case!

Re: question about a clamp on second line

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:59 pm
by Uberdude
@TheBigH
TheBigH wrote:Black cannot omit connecting at a
Well, yes he can by defending more efficiently like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . . 0 . , .
$$ | X X 4 2 a X 8 W . . .
$$ | 9 O 3 1 7 5 6 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
The marked white stone got hurt a lot here and black has outside potential so the cut of ez4u's 2nd vaiation is a lot better (assuming it works).

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:06 pm
by EdLee
TheBigH,
TheBigH wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , .
$$ | X X 4 2 . X 8 W . . .
$$ | 9 O 3 1 7 5 6 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
The marked white stone is very helpful for white in this case!
The exact opposite. The local shape is terrible for W. Broken shape for W. See Uberdude's continuation.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , .
$$ | X X X X . # # W . . .
$$ | O O O O O W # . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]