Life In 19x19

SamT wrote:Lee Changho supposedly had "no talent" for the game, at least per the biographies I've read. He still excelled, first in the 90's by learning to be better at basic, simple moves that create predictable responses, letting him read 100 moves ahead in many cases.

I guess that is a misconception of what he did. Humans cannot analyse go 100-ply deep. No way.

As an aid to positional judgement, I would imagine it is possible for pros to project a long way (like from the middlegame into a countable part of the endgame) some representative sequences, where neither player obviously drops any points. These might be honte sequences, for example.

There can be a corresponding misconception: that deep reading is about understanding how the game will go. Clearly for some "one-way street" sequences it is just that. Otherwise, though, one doesn't play out killing attacks that fail, one doesn't start ko fights for which one doesn't have the threats, and so on. Very often deep reading is about what will not happen if both players find the good moves.

i went from complete beginner to about 10 kyu in 6 months playing an hour a day. then i went from 10 kyu to about 6 kyu in another 6 months. however, my play hasn't improved since, no matter how often i play it seems, and i've been playing for 7 years.

I have always felt that the grade around 2 stones higher than my grade at the time is a big deal...

phillip1882 wrote:i went from complete beginner to about 10 kyu in 6 months playing an hour a day. then i went from 10 kyu to about 6 kyu in another 6 months. however, my play hasn't improved since, no matter how often i play it seems, and i've been playing for 7 years.

6k seems to be a natural barrier for many self taught.

After that, playing more is just ingraining more of the same (bad) habits into your game. You need to assess your game critically and go to great lengths unlearning those bad habits and implement new tactics. From what I have observed, most players who are blocked at the 6k level:

- hardly ever consider alternatives and just play whatever their (poor) instincts tell them to do
- don't really know what the balances are in terms of stability and development
- have no sense of direction, the sides and corners are not related, there are just familiar patterns here, there and everywhere
- groups will live or die contrary to their nature
- emotions or numbness take the upper hand

all of this may be just as true for the level where I am stuck. I'm merely hinting at some aspects of the game where drastic change may be called for.

Good luck

Bill Spight wrote:Is it possible for nearly all adult beginners who are willing to devote, say, 10 hours per week to go to reach a reasonable level of competence (such as KGS 5 kyu) in 6 months?

Just wanted to answer this. It's only a minority of adults that can put aside that much time for a hobby for that long but you can see it in people taking up a musical instrument as an adult that a small number can put in the hours and consistency necessary to reach a decent level while others never really progress far past the beginner stage because they just don't put the right work in. The ones who get good generally are the ones who know there's no secret or short cut and go into it knowing that they're going to dedicate a lot of time to doing things that they don't enjoy that much (relatively speaking). Other people fail because without external forces pushing them to put the hours into the stuff they dislike doing they just do what they find fun and this will normally hold them back from progressing much beyond the basics.

I think with the level of dedication in question, stronger players to play and stronger players for review and you can afford a few books then it'd be fairly unusual for someone not to get to 5k KGS.

If you're stuck at a level, it's safe to assume you're in a rut and need some work to get out. And doing more of the same won't change a thing, so you're going to have to do something different.

Self-analysis is never easy, though. You're the one blindly making the same mistakes as always, so it'll be very hard to objectively spot your flaws. Due to the sheer depth of go, it's quite possible to be blind to your own major flaws. It's really a huge help that you can reach more competent players on the internet, in these modern times. When hearing of the privations of older people, who predate the internet a lot more than I do, I feel enormously fortunate that it exists now.

If ten hours a week for six months is fair for beginner to 5k, what's fair for 5k to 1d? The same? More hours per week? More months? Inquiring minds wish to inquire!

Charles Matthews wrote: But actually I think 3 dans and 4 dans may have the most fun with go.

??!

Let's see your fun-o-meter.

There's also talent. These days it's often repeated that deliberate practice is key but i've come to realize that with the same amount of well guided practice gifted people grow faster and usually reach higher.

daal wrote:

Charles Matthews wrote: But actually I think 3 dans and 4 dans may have the most fun with go.

??!

Let's see your fun-o-meter.

You wouldn't believe how much fun I'm having.

Shaddy wrote:

daal wrote:

Charles Matthews wrote: But actually I think 3 dans and 4 dans may have the most fun with go.

??!

Let's see your fun-o-meter.

You wouldn't believe how much fun I'm having.

Oh, I would - but are you playing go?

daal wrote:

Charles Matthews wrote: But actually I think 3 dans and 4 dans may have the most fun with go.

??!

Let's see your fun-o-meter.

What you can call the "gameplay" - the ebb and flow of the game, the variety within the contest - appears to me to peak at that level. Players who are 5 dan or 6 dan in a sense are more constrained to play down lines that are valid in terms of reading and positional judgement.

Anyway, the thought isn't original to me.

Knotwilg wrote:6k seems to be a natural barrier for many self taught.

After that, playing more is just ingraining more of the same (bad) habits into your game. You need to assess your game critically and go to great lengths unlearning those bad habits and implement new tactics. From what I have observed, most players who are blocked at the 6k level:

- hardly ever consider alternatives and just play whatever their (poor) instincts tell them to do
- don't really know what the balances are in terms of stability and development
- have no sense of direction, the sides and corners are not related, there are just familiar patterns here, there and everywhere
- groups will live or die contrary to their nature
- emotions or numbness take the upper hand

all of this may be just as true for the level where I am stuck. I'm merely hinting at some aspects of the game where drastic change may be called for.

Good luck

I believe the 6k barrier can be overcome with the help of replaying pro games. These can serve as a rich source of new ideas to be applied in SDK games. In conjunction with doing a sizeable number of easy (relative to current skill level) life and death problems, the 6k player can resume progress to shodan.