Life In 19x19

Just imagine the stronger players also vow never to play DDK.

Knotwilg wrote:Just imagine the stronger players also vow never to play DDK.

They don't seem to have a problem with it.

Knotwilg wrote:Just imagine the stronger players also vow never to play DDK.

SDKs are not going to pick up bad habits from DDKs.

Joelnelsonb wrote:So tell me what you think: I've decided (among reading more of the proper material for my level and doing more life and death) that I'm going to quit playing DDKs. Even if I never win a game for a long time, I want to always play against better players until I can hang with them. Before, I would set my challenges to be open to anyone a little lower and a little higher than my current rank. This means that if I played poorly for a while and dropped a few kyus, I would adjust the rank restriction accordingly and play weaker players until I got back up. I'm wondering if the community thinks this will be productive or if maybe there's something to be said about playing both stronger and weaker players.

Play stronger players when you can and play equal when you can't.

It's important to play both stronger and weaker players in order to improve. Stronger players are better at punishing your mistakes, but they are better at hiding their weaknesses. Playing weaker players allows you to see their weaknesses very clearly. Try playing strong opponents and then going back to weaker players, you will be surprised at the differences you see. Alternating like this you can build skills into your repertoire and become a better player.

oren wrote:Play stronger players when you can and play equal when you can't.

Absolutely essential that everyone does this otherwise no one will improve.

[...] I want to always play against better players until I can hang with them [...]

If you do that on KGS you will eventually get a '~' besides your nickname in the game request window. With a '~' it might get more difficult getting games against stronger players. Also consider, if every player wants to play only stronger players, there won't be any games at all...

schawipp wrote: Also consider, if every player wants to play only stronger players, there won't be any games at all...

That's just a stupid logical fallacy.

xed_over wrote:

schawipp wrote: Also consider, if every player wants to play only stronger players, there won't be any games at all...

That's just a stupid logical fallacy.

It's a logical truth. It might be a practical fallacy.

Knotwilg wrote: It's a logical truth. It might be a practical fallacy.

Could is just be (poorly marked, I know...) irony?

On a more serious note I know some players who play very often stronger players with handycap. In those games they play like around 8k while on tournaments in even games they are rather playing like 10k. Thus, playing only stronger opponents might be too single-sided but I really don't know...

Hi,
I've been stuck at 9 kyu for 8 months, and I only just broke the 8 kyu barrier.

I've studied opening theory, but maybe I became good at that, but too weak at everything else.
So I tried to solve Tsumegos, but I didn't seem to be very good at that. Maybe my book was too difficult.
So I tried to improve my reading, but it seemed to have no effect.

Eventually, things got better. Difficult to know exactly how. Maybe all these efforts combined eventually built up and gave something...

But there is a little something that might have unlocked my understanding : one day, I was playing my daily KGS game, and the automatch found me a 5 kyu opponent (I set the automatch to play only players + or - 4 kyus from my level). I must have been 8 kyu at the time, so I got 3 stones.

First move of white : one intersection in diagonal from the tengen !
I ignore it and take the fourth corner.
Second move of white, somewhere on the 5 or 6th line !

And the game went on... and white eventually won... and he reviewed my game. Besides the opening, his moves were perfectly logical, except that he just didn't seem to care about taking the corners or the edges. I had the feeling that I was playing a 1+ dan player just toying with a kgs account to try weird openings.

And this game review made me understand a lot of things about the "direction of play". I already knew the theoretical principles because I read them in books, but to see them applied completely outside any traditionnal fuseki, above the 4th line of the goban, made me "feel" them, as if I was understanding them for the first time.
Maybe it was because I was seeing them applied alone, without involving any extra considerations such as playing the right extension, or playing on the right line, that were usually drawing all my attention and preventing me to see beyond.

So I confirm that having one's game reviewed is something good, and I'd add that having them reviewed by a really strong player is even more interesting.

Pio2001 wrote:Hi,
I've been stuck at 9 kyu for 8 months, and I only just broke the 8 kyu barrier.

I've studied opening theory, but maybe I became good at that, but too weak at everything else.

(...)

First move of white : one intersection in diagonal from the tengen !
I ignore it and take the fourth corner.
Second move of white, somewhere on the 5 or 6th line !

And the game went on... and white eventually won...

(...)

I'm happy you shared this epiphany and I remain puzzled that so many enthusiastic students of the game have such high hopes of studying the opening, especially fixed patterns. If you're strong at L&D or the endgame, it doesn't matter a great deal if you're strong at the opening, as long as you don't violate basic strategic concepts such as cutting and connecting, avoiding to be sealed in or playing away from strong stones, and likewise play good technnique like a hane against an attachment. No disasters will happen, you can fully concentrate on the basics and most importantly you will not delude yourself that a winning streak is near because you just completed a book on the chinese fuseki, and neither will you feel that victory is morally yours because the opponent plays an unusual opening.

I was cured from this disease early in my go career, when Pierre Colmez 5d played his final game in the Brussels tournament against Guo Juan and placed his first 4 stones on 7-7. While everybody was chuckling, Guo concentrated very hard, since she was aware of the danger to overestimate the advantage of conventional play and also these 4 stones where already "thick" in some way.

Enjoy real go!

Knotwilg wrote:I remain puzzled that so many enthusiastic students of the game have such high hopes of studying the opening,

One of the reasons is that very often, in real life, when good players comments my games, they focus on the opening, and then conclude with a "no need to go further"... maybe because they can't remember the next moves

Pio2001 wrote:

Knotwilg wrote:I remain puzzled that so many enthusiastic students of the game have such high hopes of studying the opening,

One of the reasons is that very often, in real life, when good players comments my games, they focus on the opening, and then conclude with a "no need to go further"... maybe because they can't remember the next moves

They may be better players then but they don't know why

Pio2001 wrote:Hi,
I've been stuck at 9 kyu for 8 months, and I only just broke the 8 kyu barrier.

I've studied opening theory, but maybe I became good at that, but too weak at everything else.
So I tried to solve Tsumegos, but I didn't seem to be very good at that. Maybe my book was too difficult.
So I tried to improve my reading, but it seemed to have no effect.

Eventually, things got better. Difficult to know exactly how. Maybe all these efforts combined eventually built up and gave something...

But there is a little something that might have unlocked my understanding : one day, I was playing my daily KGS game, and the automatch found me a 5 kyu opponent (I set the automatch to play only players + or - 4 kyus from my level). I must have been 8 kyu at the time, so I got 3 stones.

First move of white : one intersection in diagonal from the tengen !
I ignore it and take the fourth corner.
Second move of white, somewhere on the 5 or 6th line !

And the game went on... and white eventually won... and he reviewed my game. Besides the opening, his moves were perfectly logical, except that he just didn't seem to care about taking the corners or the edges. I had the feeling that I was playing a 1+ dan player just toying with a kgs account to try weird openings.

And this game review made me understand a lot of things about the "direction of play". I already knew the theoretical principles because I read them in books, but to see them applied completely outside any traditionnal fuseki, above the 4th line of the goban, made me "feel" them, as if I was understanding them for the first time.
Maybe it was because I was seeing them applied alone, without involving any extra considerations such as playing the right extension, or playing on the right line, that were usually drawing all my attention and preventing me to see beyond.

So I confirm that having one's game reviewed is something good, and I'd add that having them reviewed by a really strong player is even more interesting.

That sounds like a really helpful review. Did you save the file? Would you be willing to share it? I'd like to look at it.