Progress in Black and White

[Majordomo]

Today's game - wherein I again lose a won game - but not due to a single obvious misread so I'm very interested in hearing other people's take on it. (basically I think slack and slow are keywords - I just can't pinpoint the exact ones where the game turned around from what should be a massive lead after what I felt was great overplay on his side.

My opponent was very nice so after the game we went over it and exchanged some ideas - I'll post both games here the clean one and our "review" if you want. Be aware we were both sort of swapping control so the ideas are a bit all over the place and the comments a bit hard to follow maybe. Either way:

The reviewed game



The "clean" game sgf

[EdLee]

Hi domo,

maybe slow. ( Maybe at N4. )

...or Q8...

Local result good for B. ( at N8 )

maybe M8.

N9.

maybe N12.

Maybe you work too hard here to try to kill.
Attack to profit. Maybe o13.
Just make sure you get a good result here ( kill or not ),
and make good shape for yourself and sente to tenuki.

Such as this move. Maybe just block M13 & profit on the outside.

Stubborn. N15 big.

W gets this shared vital point -- good shape for W.

Slow. From the beginning of the attack you didn't think to attack to profit and sente to work on the left side.
That's how you ended up with in gote.
If you have to go back to fix this cut, then connect directly at .

He missed C18.

Maybe small & slow. Maybe H4 bigger.

Another small & slow move. Both of you overestimate the center, maybe.

107 Almost a pass. Bigger: C3, B14, H17, etc.

149 Why. B5, etc.

150 B14 + A12.

171 Q18.

180 This result is ridiculous for B.
This corner L&D accounts for most of the 24.5 points difference.

[Majordomo]

Thanks - I've looked over the game some more and I think my evaluation of the position was off by a lot. I think I had a good advantage at move 57 - but I mishandled my attack badly and he got an advantageous position in the process. By 71 he's safe and I haven't really gotten that much from my attack and after 74 if not before it's white who has the edge - and after the sequence that starts at 113 I don't think I can come back - I really underestimated how much points he stood to make on the side there - of course nothing was helped with the bad misreads but I'm still behind either way am I not?

[Majordomo]

Not a good weekend for games - at least not serious ones. Instead I've spent the little amount of time I had on a couple of blitz games both against GnuGo and real opponents (using my OGS account) and one teaching game (trying to get my brother interested heh).

While I might not have learned anything at all from these games they certainly were confidence boosters. I can recall not that long ago where I struggled against GnuGo even when trying to think, and on OGS I hadn't played there since late may so my rank was what it was then - however - turns out that you can improve even if you don't feel like you are (probably because you just face better opponents)! I can now rather effortlessly blitz and crush GnuGo, and the games on OGS were also one-sided affairs.

But, while I can totally get the ego boost from sandbagging, its not for me. I really want to get some serious (well to me) games in now and keep at it. Hopefully the books I've ordered will come soon since I'm nearing the end of Cho Chikun's Elementary. What it has taught me is invaluable - but also I have to wonder - When people say they've done thousands of problems I don't see how they have the time for it (unless they are talking over many years, but some seem to say they do a hundred a day or something) - I've no chance to do that many unless I spend hours, or is this down to different methods of solving? What constitutes solving tsumego for people (use yourself as an example)? I try my best to read everything, which works but takes forever still - especially for unfamiliar shapes.

Anyway, just a little update - games to come this week!

[Majordomo]

Ach, so much for my triumphant return... I got to play three games today - and lost all three...

I've yet to add comments, I'm on that. I think that at one point I was ahead in all three of the games, and in only one have I identified a true "losing move". Other than that I think it's mostly a case of picking the wrong direction in fights and misreading in tricky do or die situations - I at least feel I'm getting good positions, and then see it unravel.

The games and some overarching comments for the game itself, I'm reviewing them myself more in depth soon but need to take a break first.

1) First game


By move 32 I think the game is even and I got to play in the bottom to hinder him growing. The exchange that follows up to move 49 makes me regret not just extending to the side when he shoulder hit, but I at least hope to get to trash his area while he runs with his now wasted corner. Leela thinks this exchange is bad for white and the game now favours my opponent. Then we run up the side and I'm not against getting my territory solidified. I'm not afraid of my group dying so I think my opponent just secures me points while I get a chance to take his away once I get sente. However I do let him go to easy and connect up to his top, after a wasted move at 72. Also I think that I wasn't severe enough and didn't try hard enough to poke the defects in his shape in the hopes of cutting him apart. In the fight that arises after 74 I think he screws up and suddenly everything of mine is safe and sound and I think I'm ahead at this point (coming back from being ahead - this is both what I felt at the time and what Leela tells me). In the endgame that follows I think I do quite well until I we get to moves 147-152 after which I'm losing. Reading is everything, with different play (not just give him a ton of points) here I think the game is fine for me. Oh well. The rest is just endgame practice I suppose... Aaaand we're back to 5k...

2) Second game

So I start game 2 with a fresh mind - and I think it goes rather well until move 83 after which things fall apart for me - his weak group is no longer weak and my grand thickness becomes nothing - then it is a slow collapse as I never find a sharp way to come back into the game and bleed points until they are all his. I resign after I misread the sequence at the bottom but the games is already over.


3) Third game

So I probably shouldn't have played a third game. I'm the kind of player that tilts a wee bit when losing, which in turn further degrades my game. According to Leela I really should never have played 49 at C14 - but after he screws up in the top right corner I'm fine again until move 114. This is something I've identified too much of in my play where I just play something that is of game deciding importance and find that I've not really read through it at all. I saw it as soon as I made the cut at move 119 that it wouldn't work out - then I scramble and fail to give life to my groups (ultimately just wasting time with moves that have no business working and aren't very respectful of my opponents time)

So... That's it for now I guess - comments / reviews are very desired and welcome - I'm off to review the games some more and start reading the books that just arrived today!

[Majordomo]

Well, nearly a week has passed but not much in the way of games for me. For normal games I had one loss and one win against a 5k and 4k respectively. The loss on time (I stupidly tried to delay to the last second and failed - though behind after a massive blunder where I go for 2 worthless stones instead of wrecking his only source of points) and the win on my opponent collapsing in the first corner after playing out a capturing race that he should never have gotten into in the first place - also I had one game but the person left abruptly (I was ahead but very much still a game), and a pair of handicap / teaching games with my brother on 9 stones.

On a happier note, I've really done a lot of problems, easy ones but still, in the form of Level Up Review 1 and 2 - some 300 pages of Go problems with 6 problems a page. It has taught me a lot in the way of reading out capturing races in particular - something I found difficult in comparison to the "regular" life and death problems (though still very doable at this difficulty).

Now... I really ought to play more games I realise and I intend to (By starting to play 10 min 3x30 second games by default instead of 20/30 and 3x30, long enough to read and think - no blitz - but short enough that I can up the quantity of games I hope), but first I have 2 weeks of vacation so it'll be interesting to see what I get done and if I can improve at all (or just not degrade horribly). I'm bringing board, stones, a tablet, some go books (Tesuji & The Endgame) - and an opponent in the form of my brother.

Attached is the game I won due to my opponent blundering. However, when I reviewed it I think I got away with murder and my opponent could have forced a much better result than he got? So for sharper eyes than mine - what is the play at move 23 cause I don't think mine was right.

[EdLee]

B3 ?

[Majordomo]

So.... A month later I return and unlike several I've heard claim I can't say I've improved on my break... Oh well...

Here is a game I played today, other than that my only games have been teaching my brother and thus sandbagging a wee bit by helping him when he was lost in his games (kind of fun to be able to kill of the board against 8-10k players though, since I was one not that long ago) - In a week he was able to play even against 10k on KGS so that was good to see (if somewhat upsetting since he has more spare time and I fear that he'll surpass me if he keeps at it in this tempo).


The game - I was black and lost by a a few, mostly due to a misread in the upper right I think but I sealed the deal by playing poor endgame. I've added a lot of variations of what I tried reading out and such. As always comments are very welcome!



I'm considering getting a teacher - if I can find one - so any suggestions for such would also be welcome!

[skydyr]

I've posted a few comments on the game here:

[Majordomo]

Ah, thanks a ton! I really created trouble for myself by drawing the two out, I should have just gone for the profit instead and played away - as it was I got let off easy by him. However, does this mean the cut was bad in the first place or just my subsequent handling of it?

Also, thanks for showing the dangerous amount of reading mistakes that I really should have picked up on (and probably a ton that are well beyond me but that is the game heh) - it's no good relying on my opponent misreading in return heh. For the sequence at 112 - I thought I'd read it out that I could connect to the top but I think maybe it was a bit more dangerous than I realised and that he let me off after 118 (and the line after 162 which I missed completely).

[Majordomo]

Ah, not a good game - despite me winning. I played a game on OGS on an older account for the heck of it and chose someone 4 stones stronger than my account because I know I've improved a lot since late may (despite not playing much). Anyway, my opponent did not use his time and dragged me with him into a speedier game than I would have liked - which resulted in me playing bad moves several times only to have him respond in kind and get away with them. I've gone over the game and found several moments where he really could have put pressure on me but played something slow instead - pushing at N5 for example.

Comments are of course welcome, but I'm much happier with my play in the game from yesterday. Here for instance I just let him bleed points from me in the endgame without thinking because I'd counted myself sufficiently ahead - which is a bad habit since it all too often ends with me ignoring something huge when the liberties shrink. To remedy my endgame somewhat I've started on "The Endgame" by Davies in addition to doing the problems in the Jump Level Up series.

A question - Graded Go Problems for Dan players 1 & 2 - am I nearing the level where these will be okay practice? I was thinking of getting Graded Go Problems for Beginners 3 & 4 and wondered if I should add the Dan 1 & 2 on the list as well (though I'll be holding off until I've gone through Get strong at Tesuji and the Jump Level Up books at least).

[sparky314]

A question - Graded Go Problems for Dan players 1 & 2 - am I nearing the level where these will be okay practice? I was thinking of getting Graded Go Problems for Beginners 3 & 4 and wondered if I should add the Dan 1 & 2 on the list as well (though I'll be holding off until I've gone through Get strong at Tesuji and the Jump Level Up books at least).

No, GGPfD starts in the 3 kyu range. Additionally, I'd recommend 1001 Life and Death and Get Strong at Tesuji prior to GGPfB v4. And, as always, repeat problem books randomly until 95% accuracy. =D

[Majordomo]

Well, the 95% isn't an issue because I stick with a problem until I'm sure - hasn't failed me yet (except in games where I don't have time for that heh) - though it has made me feel like breaking my head on something hard! Also technically I did hit 3k on KGS hehe - only to drop back down immediately of course but oh well. It'll take me some time to finish the books I have so I'll revisit the idea then (yes, I'm just looking for an excuse to buy more books!) - have you read Yilun Yang's Fundamental Principles of Go? And 1001 problems, could that be redundant with the Cho Chikun's Elementary and Intermediate life and death so readily available or does it offer more / different things (I kind of always had them pinned as fairly interchangeable)?

I saw your thread here btw - it would be cool to play you on KGS sometime though I'm not sure if we are in the same timezone (Norway here). Seems like there are quite a few SDK with active study journals at the moment - could be good practice heh.

[sparky314]

We'll have to figure a good time that works for both of us. Potentially Saturday/Sunday?

If you're 4k KGS, then you're probably strong enough to start the dan series, but I haven't peeked at them yet. And if you want an excuse to buy books, well...see signature. =D

I've only done a portion of Cho's Elementary, but 1001 is less about actual game situations and more just training reading. 1001 is divided into 6 sections: 1 move to live, 1 move to kill, 3 to live/kill, and 5 to live/kill. The 1 move section would be too easy, but the 3 and 5 moves would be useful, even at 4k (hey, more problems!). 1001 L&D (and GSAT) is in between GGPfB v3 and v4. You could probably skip it, but advice I heard elsewhere: "get every tsumego book you see, even if its too easy."

Other books to consider, if you're looking for more to buy, in addition to (and probably after) those you listed. (Note, I've only read half of the first - still working on it):

• Reducing Territorial Frameworks (theory, bit dry but excellent)
• 501 Tesuji
• Lee Changho's L&D and Tesuji series (12 books, taobao/bhiner from China)
• Book to Increase Fighting Strength (2 volumnes, amazon japan)

Yilun Yang's Fundamental Principles of Go is a good book. I'd recommend it, but I think its more useful for weak SDK/DDK, and to revisit once in a while rather than for serious study.

If I spend more than 5 minutes on a problem, I skip it. Do you revisit your tsumego books? After I've put a couple of books in between, I'll reread them again. Usually, I can go through them much quicker the second and third time, but I find it very useful.

[hl782]

If you are 4Kyu, 1001 is probably a bit easy for you. 501 Tesuji is definitely too difficult at 4kyu level. I feel like that should be the successor book to Get Strong at Tesuji.

Yilun Yang's book should be retitled to - "Tips in the Fuseki & Joseki + Common Invasion Patterns". It's not a bad book worth getting but I think it doesnt really focus too much on the 'fundamentals' (though it does a better job at it than Kageyama's book).