Tenchou no Igo 7 Zen

[tartaric]

I'm pretty sure this Zen 7 can't beat my Leela 11 because if it's only using a CPU... I'm using a Quadro P 6000. But if someone want to test the strenght just send me a pm to fix the date and place to play.

[johnsmith]

I assume that RoyalLeela is on OGS, so Zen 7 had the whole CPU to itself.

But why is Zen 7 so strong on a mid-level CPU when it doesn't even use the GPU, which, from what I've heard, is a crucial factor for strength in other programs?

My assumption is that Deep Zen we see on Tygem is around 3750 Elo (it uses high-end GPU), while Zen with 30-60sec CPU is around 3460, which is much weaker that its full strength. So you are basically correct about GPU as a crucial factor. My another guess is that RoyalLeela (on OGS) is around 3350 Elo.

Attached is yet another game between Zen and Leela, where Zen was confident from the beginning.

[pookpooi]

It's true that GPU is the crucial point, but that's the comparison within the same software. For different software it can't be help if Zen without GPU can beat Leela with good GPU. It just shows that Zen's neural network is much better cause it was trained in a much faster hardware for a much longer time. But we need solid evidence that Zen 7 can really beat Leela first, besides CGOS result that no other programs can beat Zen-15.3-10c yet.

[Isla]

Anyone ever met with a problem when purchasing the product?
I tried to purchase Zenith Go 7 English version half a day ago and I received payment record of my card, that means the charge have been deducted from it. But I couldn't find the purchase record in the web page and I didn't receive any e-mails about this purchase either.
I can hardly find contact information of customer service or similar things in the web page.
How can I confirm whether I have successfully purchased it?

[Vargo]

Can someone test it against Crazy Stone DL , it should be a good test, because CSDL doesn't depend on hardware (I think)
How many stones can Zen7 give to CSDL 5 Dan ?

On my computer ( Win10 i7-6700K 32GB GTX1080) the strongest is AQ which won against CSDL(5D) 2-0 at H5 and lost 0-2 at H6 with 20" per move and 5 threads (5 is what AQ's author recommended for my computer).

I'd be very intersted in such a test. If Zen7 is stronger, I'll certainly buy it !

Interesting times

[Gomoto]

Zenith Go 6 : Zenith Go 7

0 : 1

Intel I5 2500k @ 4,2 Ghz
20 seconds per move

[kdbaby1412]

I'll purchase this on Monday and see how it works on my Ryzen 7 1700X. Then I'll test with someone Leela to confirm.

[Gomoto]

Leela 11 vs. Zen 7

1 : 0

Intel I5 2500k @ 4.2 Ghz, Nvidia 1080 Ti, Zen 20 sec. p. move, Leela 20 min p. game

[Bas]

Leela 0.11.0 GPU (no ponder, 8 threads, book enabled) – Zenith Go 7
0 : 1
Intel i7-7700K@4.2GHz
NVIDIA GTX 1080

Both engines had 30s per move. Zen used 17s on average (Zenith Go 6 uses only half of its time too).

At some point both engines thought black is better, but than things become bad for black. Leela had problems to evaluate the status of a group correctly.

[tartaric]

You used no ponder dude lol.

Seriously, Leela 11 running on Quadro P6000 can give Zen 6 3 stones of handicaps and still be winning. I have also won against KGS 7 dan with 3 stones, and KGS 8 d (1p from Europe) at 2 stones of handicaps and still won largely. Just search on KGS archives "Carnage" and you'll see I have won against Cheater who used to be a regular 8d (pro 1p) and Pestilence (strong 7d in the past but now 6d cause of all bot users).

Leela 11 > Zen 7, sorry for those who paid for this last.

[pookpooi]

What's the maximum core Zen support? Is it 10 logical cores as I expected earlier?

[Gomoto]

Leela is a nice program and open source. Kudos to the developer.

But I prefer the Zen GUI for analyzing my games.

[Gomoto]

I think there is no setting for seconds per move in Leela?

[tartaric]

Leela is a nice program and open source. Kudos to the developer.

But I prefer the Zen GUI for analyzing my games.

Yes Zen interface is better, that's the only weak point of Leela I guess.

And no unfortunately there are no setting for seconds per move but with the pondering it's not that important because Leela thinks during the turn of the opponent. Also you can change the time setting during the game to restablish it to the initial one. For example if you put 20 minutes for Black and White Leela will play something like 15s a move at the beginning and then it will decrease to 14, 13, etc. So when you'll click on settings and time you'll see it's written less than 20 minutes because the time has passed, so you just have to put it back to 20 minutes if it is written 15 minutes for example to once again having Leela playing 15s a move as at the begninning.

[Bas]

I think there is no setting for seconds per move in Leela?

Unfortunately there is no setting in the GUI, but it can be set in the text UI using GTP commands. “time_settings 0 30 1” sets 0 seconds main time, 30 seconds byoyomi time for 1 stone. It’s annoying to play in the text UI, I did it only for a first testing game. It would be far better if Leela would allow to give initial commands as command line arguments, or to have a clock in Sabaki. Or a GUI must be able to send configurable initial GTP commands.

And than it would be nice if a main time could be set in Zenith. But this isn’t possible too. By the way: the maximum thinking time per move is still limited to 120seconds. No custom settings are possible.