Joanne Missingham

[kokomi]

born :26 May 1994 Brisbane, Australia

This was being bandied about as an amateur playing in a tournament, but she's a pro.
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Technicalities? Are there no age requirements for "pro" status?

There is, i think, that you can not be older than certain age to become a 'pro'. The line was 18 years old in China, but then they give 2 places to under-25 every year for those who missed 18 yo requirement.

[DrStraw]

Technicalities? Are there no age requirements for "pro" status?

It pretty much depends on the country. 18 is often quoted as the cutoff, but I don't think it is that hard of a limit.

[DrStraw]

One thing I am curious about in this thread is the name "Missingham". She is obviously ethnic Chinese, as is shown by the way the tournament was reported. But most ethnic Chinese do not have names like "Missingham". Can some explain this anomaly?

[nagano]

Her father is a caucasian Australian.

[DrStraw]

Then where does her Chinese name come from?

[schilds]

It's not uncommon for mixed western/chinese children to be given both a western and chinese name, though one is usually unofficial and may never see any use. It's also not uncommon for chinese living in western countries to adopt a western name (and for their children to have two names).

[nagano]

It's not uncommon for mixed western/chinese children to be given both a western and chinese name, though one is usually unofficial and may never see any use. It's also not uncommon for chinese living in western countries to adopt a western name (and for their children to have two names).

Yes, unfortunately, because people are too lazy to learn to pronounce anything.

[CSamurai]

Yes, unfortunately, because people are too lazy to learn to pronounce anything.

Yes. Because it sure is easy to pronounce chinese characters you've never seen, and the proper accents in an accent based language that you've never encountered, and sounds that your language lacks.

We should all just learn to pronounce all writen languages, just like you, to avoid being lazy.

[DrStraw]

Yes. Because it sure is easy to pronounce chinese characters you've never seen, and the proper accents in an accent based language that you've never encountered, and sounds that your language lacks.

We should all just learn to pronounce all writen languages, just like you, to avoid being lazy.

I think this attack is totally uncalled for.

[CSamurai]

Yes. Because it sure is easy to pronounce chinese characters you've never seen, and the proper accents in an accent based language that you've never encountered, and sounds that your language lacks.

We should all just learn to pronounce all writen languages, just like you, to avoid being lazy.

I think this attack is totally uncalled for.

Perhaps my smiley at the end didn't make it clear, but I was being rediculous. You know, overstating something, for humourous purposes.

However, failing at that, I'll endeavor to come up with a more constructive way to state this.

I find it odd when people automatically assume westerners are lazy because they don't learn to pronounce things in other languages, jargon from other languages, etc. I understand, yes, we Americans in general do put too little effort into understanding the linguistics of cultures we're interacting with. On the other hand, assuming that the reason Chinese residents of english speaking countries have alternate westernized names is because people are too lazy to learn to pronounce their language/name/whathave you, smacks of an unfair assumption.

It was to this unfair, 'westerners are bad people' assumption to which I aimed my comment.

I don't know. Maybe our fair nagano is a master of several languages, and truly feels that all us mere mortals who become tongue tied when looking at old english pronunciations, let alone languages which have letters which have no english equivilant sound, or, are constructed of vowel sounds that are often merely accents of the same vowel sound, should stop being lazy.

Of course, I appologize if I offended anyone.

[nagano]

Yes. Because it sure is easy to pronounce chinese characters you've never seen, and the proper accents in an accent based language that you've never encountered, and sounds that your language lacks.

We should all just learn to pronounce all writen languages, just like you, to avoid being lazy.

I think this attack is totally uncalled for.

Perhaps my smiley at the end didn't make it clear, but I was being rediculous. You know, overstating something, for humourous purposes.

However, failing at that, I'll endeavor to come up with a more constructive way to state this.

I find it odd when people automatically assume westerners are lazy because they don't learn to pronounce things in other languages, jargon from other languages, etc. I understand, yes, we Americans in general do put too little effort into understanding the linguistics of cultures we're interacting with. On the other hand, assuming that the reason Chinese residents of english speaking countries have alternate westernized names is because people are too lazy to learn to pronounce their language/name/whathave you, smacks of an unfair assumption.

It was to this unfair, 'westerners are bad people' assumption to which I aimed my comment.

I don't know. Maybe our fair nagano is a master of several languages, and truly feels that all us mere mortals who become tongue tied when looking at old english pronunciations, let alone languages which have letters which have no english equivilant sound, or, are constructed of vowel sounds that are often merely accents of the same vowel sound, should stop being lazy.

Of course, I appologize if I offended anyone.

I was partly joking, and I don't expect people to pronounce every language perfectly. I was just saying that I think people could put forth more effort than they often do, and I think its a pity that people from East Asia in particular almost have to do this. For instance, I think many would consider it to be quite ridiculous if a German named Andreas Müller was required to change his name to Andrew Miller if he were in an English-speaking country. In fact many German-Americans did so during WWI because of the strong anti-German sentiment at the time. I am not saying that the different treatment of East Asian names is race related, and I do understand that they are much harder for the native English speaker to pronounce. But I do think that most names can at least be approximately pronounced in English. BTW, I am no "master" of several languages, though I do have a fundamental understanding of German and am studying Korean and Chinese.

[Mike Novack]

This problem with names is not a Western vs Eastern thing.

Exists within Western civ even when the cultures are using the same alphabet (and not all within Western do that). If you are of a minority ethnic group in the area where living a name traditional in your culture might be a tough one for your kids to have to go by. And spelling even if using the same alphabet can be tricky as our different languages don't spell things out the same way plus some names have traditional pronunciations far removed from how spelled if spelled traditionally rather than phontically.

Wouldn't at least some of us Westerners on this list have trouble with names like:
Nagy (Nadge)
Siobhan (Shevan)
St John (Sinjin)
Or grossly mistake the ethnic association of Odd Bull (and so a kid in Minnesota would have a problem given this Norwegian name because the other kids would think "American Indian").

[nagano]

This problem with names is not a Western vs Eastern thing.

Exists within Western civ even when the cultures are using the same alphabet (and not all within Western do that). If you are of a minority ethnic group in the area where living a name traditional in your culture might be a tough one for your kids to have to go by. And spelling even if using the same alphabet can be tricky as our different languages don't spell things out the same way plus some names have traditional pronunciations far removed from how spelled if spelled traditionally rather than phontically.

Wouldn't at least some of us Westerners on this list have trouble with names like:
Nagy (Nadge)
Siobhan (Shevan)
St John (Sinjin)
Or grossly mistake the ethnic association of Odd Bull (and so a kid in Minnesota would have a problem given this Norwegian name because the other kids would think "American Indian").

I never said that it was a Western vs. Eastern thing. I understand that it has to do with the vast difference in pronunciation. I also do not expect everyone to correctly pronounce every word they read from another language. But if someone tells you what their name is, you should be able to reasonably approximate the pronunciation, at least well enough that it is apparent who you are talking to. I will say though, in the United States there are many people with Jewish, Arabic, and Indian names that do not feel obligated to change their names. What is so different about East Asian names?

[Kirby]

I have some experience with this topic, because my wife sometimes uses alternate names when introducing herself.

I think that the reason is simply to provide convenience to the person she is introducing herself to. She writes her name in English starting with "Hyu". There aren't a lot of English words that start with Hyu that I'm aware of, so sometimes it is easy for people to mispronounce her name. When we first met, in fact, she introduced herself with her made-up English name. I insisted on using her real name, and made an effort to learn how to pronounce her name well.

I don't think she ever thought that Westerners, for example, were too "lazy" to learn to pronounce her name (as seems to be suggested by some people). Rather, I think she just assumed that most Westerners did not know much about Korea or how to pronounce Korean names. As such, providing an alternate name makes it easier for the Westerner - and they don't mispronounce her name.

I think of this in a similar way to when, even if I'm in Asia, people will typically try to speak to me in English. It's because they assume that I will have a hard time speaking in their language, simply because of past experiences with Western folks living in Asia. I don't think that this, in itself, holds any feeling that I'm lazy. Some people may have that thought, but I think it's separate from the courtesy of trying to make someone feel more comfortable (which is what is happening when somebody provides an alternate name for you to use).

---

Side note: Another thought that just came to me is that, in America, if my wife uses her Korean name for a job that requires English speaking ability, it is a default assumption that her English ability is poor, and her application will typically be thrown out. She has had much more success in using an English name when applying to jobs that require English ability. That's because people typically assume that someone with a non-English sounding name must not be good at English speaking stuff.

[Solomon]

I think that the reason is simply to provide convenience to the person she is introducing herself to. She writes her name in English starting with "Hyu". There aren't a lot of English words that start with Hyu that I'm aware of, so sometimes it is easy for people to mispronounce her name. When we first met, in fact, she introduced herself with her made-up English name. I insisted on using her real name, and made an effort to learn how to pronounce her name well.

I don't think she ever thought that Westerners, for example, were too "lazy" to learn to pronounce her name (as seems to be suggested by some people). Rather, I think she just assumed that most Westerners did not know much about Korea or how to pronounce Korean names. As such, providing an alternate name makes it easier for the Westerner - and they don't mispronounce her name.

...

This is also why I chose my name to be "Solomon" and a lot of people know me by that name. It's also just a bit comforting in knowing that googling my real name brings up 1 result, while the full name most people know me by brings up 4000+ results.