Life In 19x19

Back to the topic, price aside, what are the strongest programs available for home use? I understand this depends on what kind of hardware you're running, so let's just say an average high end desktop.

Jedo wrote:Back to the topic, price aside, what are the strongest programs available for home use? I understand this depends on what kind of hardware you're running, so let's just say an average high end desktop.

It was pretty much a tie at the last computer olympiad.

http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/t ... php?id=216

Jedo wrote:Back to the topic, price aside, what are the strongest programs available for home use? I understand this depends on what kind of hardware you're running, so let's just say an average high end desktop.

I would say

Complete programs:
- [sl=ManyFacesOfGo]Many faces of Go[/sl]
- Zen (but still as fas as i know only available in Japanese)

- [sl=MyGoFriend]My Go Friend[/sl] (only 9x9)

Go bots (freeware but you need an interface like Drago or Gogui to work with them)
- Fuego
- MoGo

@Stephany93 After experimenting some more with MoyoGo, I have decided, that MasterGo is the better choice. MoyoGo's statistical move frequency search is fantastic, there's nothing else like it. It is also excellent at searching whole-board positions. But where I find it lacking is in its local search function. It essentially like Kombilo, you just drag to create a box, and then get a static search of the position. You have to repeat this every time you do a local search, which makes it very tedious to use if you're trying to study joseki. MasterGo is just as good as MoyoGo with the fuseki search, and is vastly superior on corner and regional pattern searches. The difference is that searches are in real time, which means that the pattern is researched automatically every time you place a move instead of having to do it manually.

nagano wrote:@Stephany93 After experimenting some more with MoyoGo, I have decided, that MasterGo is the better choice. MoyoGo's statistical move frequency search is fantastic, there's nothing else like it. It is also excellent at searching whole-board positions. But where I find it lacking is in its local search function. It essentially like Kombilo, you just drag to create a box, and then get a static search of the position. You have to repeat this every time you do a local search, which makes it very tedious to use if you're trying to study joseki. MasterGo is just as good as MoyoGo with the fuseki search, and is vastly superior on corner and regional pattern searches. The difference is that searches are in real time, which means that the pattern is researched automatically every time you place a move instead of having to do it manually.

In reading this, it looks exactly like what SmartGo does ("real time" pattern, joseki/fuseki searching, etc.), and I don't find it cumbersome at all--I most often switch between "near last move" and a defined area for pattern searching (where it is possible to exclude consideration of specific stones, etc). Have you tried the program in awhile? Is there something about it that bothers you that I'm missing? Please note that I'm not attempting to challenge your assessment so much as understand what you mean.

I noticed that both have demos so, of course, people are welcome to try them out.

SmartGo isn't so bad, I just think that the search interface isn't very nice. It takes much longer to move around and change stones. Mastergo excels at making the interface as simple and fast to use as possible. When I use other programs I feel like the interface is getting in the way instead of helping me.

Two points on Mastergo

1) (Funny) on the links page of the Mastergo website (http://www.mastergo.com/mastergo/links.cgi )
It calls smartgo the future of computergo.

2) Where can you buy it? all the retailers mentioned on http://www.mastergo.com/mastergo/buy.cgi don't sell it anymore.

No one sells CDs anymore, but you can download the demo from the website, and if you decide you want to pay for the full version, you can get an activation key from Slate & Shell.

nagano wrote:No one sells CDs anymore, but you can download the demo from the website, and if you decide you want to pay for the full version, you can get an activation key from Slate & Shell.

i cannot find a link for ithe activation key at Slate & Shell

You can purchase the serial number for 38 Euros from Hebsacker:

http://www.hebsacker-verlag.de/product_ ... ucts_id=75

Free - http://www.godrago.net/
Paid for - http://www.smartgo.com/en/index.htm ( has its own playing engine ).

Both can then use free plug in engines e.g. GnuGo, fuego http://gnugo.baduk.org/

This is not really what you were asking for, but I think is worth mentioning anyways.

Bruce Wilcox's Go Dojo:

Sector Fights
Contact Fights
Other

Senseis Library Webpage

These are interactive computer tutorials. Not for everyone, but I've found them very interesting so far. Sector Fights in particular is useful if, like me, you're not sure what to look for in a game at a global level. My guess is that they would be useful even into the sdk range, though perhaps players stronger me (a ddk) could comment on that.

Downside is, they are rather expensive: $35 for sector fights, $25 for contact fights.

tundra wrote: Downside is, they are rather expensive: $35 for sector fights, $25 for contact fights.

Compared to a book? You can of course find books that cost less than this but the price is in the same ball park.

I'm just trying to point out that when the "free software" movement began that was the objection to the way commercial software of the day was being "sold" (mostly it wasn't being "sold" but "leased" with the purchaser getting far less rights than pertain to ownership).

All I am trying to say is that we should object strongly when commercial software is being sold for much more than the price of a book and/or you don't really get a copy of your own for that price (you get to keep a book when you move house -- do you get to keep the program when you "move computer"?). We should not object otherwise. And technically "free software" should be considered to have a "price" in the $5 range as opposed to free as in "free beer" (that's the current typical charge for the service "provide a copy on medium to order").