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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:05 am
by Shaddy
They are not, as far as I know: dango, please do not read my hide tags in the future. I haven't put anything actually useful in there yet, but that'll definitely happen later.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:16 am
by dangomango
ok my bad lol

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:22 am
by dangomango
with that said, since i didn't know beforehand

jts you can feel free to read my hidden posts
earlier post was somewhat for you

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:54 am
by Shaddy
To make the rule clear - We are not allowed to tell our little brothers anything which could possibly be useful to them in deciding a move or to influence their moves in any way other than making corrections.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:14 pm
by Phelan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 6... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-10/7 W-10/8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems forced to me, although I've been told in another thread that it isn't. The idea behind this move comes straight from my reading of Opening Made Easy: to avoid an extension from a corner enclosure. This way if black still extends, he can not extend as far, and we can still live on the right side.
Since black's extension is worth a lot, being an extension from both corners, stopping it is also worth a lot.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:07 pm
by jts
dangomango wrote:with that said, since i didn't know beforehand

jts you can feel free to read my hidden posts
earlier post was somewhat for you


If there was an earlier hidden post that's me-appropriate, you can just post it without hide tags, I think.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:21 pm
by jts
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 7... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-10(6) W-10(7)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I changed the labels a little bit, now that we can use parentheses (woo!).

This is what I expect:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Move 6... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-10(6) W-10(7)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 , . . . . . , . . . . 7 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not actually sure where is best for white to finish, but I'm positive White needs to add a move somewhere, and then we get a move on the left side. I'm trying to think in advance about how we can attack W if white tenukis... R12, probably?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:54 pm
by Phelan
My move needs to be approved first though. :p

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:57 pm
by Marcus
I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:33 pm
by dangomango
if violence approves, i approve too

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:42 pm
by jts
Phelan wrote:My move needs to be approved first though. :p

Ooops, jumped the gun :/

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:06 pm
by Shaddy
Observers.
I am split on whether or not to approve this move. I'm leaning towards changing it, because I refuse to follow jts's posted sequence and would definitely change that anyway (It is necessary to invade white's enclosure, otherwise white becomes unbelievably thick). Hopefully I can force one of their big brothers to make a change so they don't get +5 corrections on us.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:03 am
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:14 pm
by Shaddy
I hate to do this early, but no.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 7... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-8(10) W-10(7)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #3

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:05 pm
by jts
Awww. :blackeye: I'm not sure whether Shaddy doesn't like this because I made a mistake, or because there's something about global considerations that makes this move preferable, or whether it just fits in with his style more. W has to extend, I think, which leaves W with a supposedly good move at "a" later.

For :b9: (assuming :w8: as below) I'm considering b, c, and d. C is just the wedge; if they get that point, it will probably become necessary to invade at some point, and then we'll spend the rest of the game dealing with the influence W gets. B is meant to work with :b7: ... :b7: is a very loose enclosure, especially with W's right-side group so near, but adding another stone in the corner seems slow and overconcentrated. With "b", my goal would be that if W approaches the corner we already have a stone where one of us wants an extension. D... maybe I need to think about "d" more. Originally I was thinking that if we get to jump back to k4 or k3 we're in very good shape on the bottom, but I can't decide how I would respond to the pincer - jump out or take the corner?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 7... P: B-0, W-0... C: B-8(10) W-10(7)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . d . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]