hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Ortho · Post by **Ortho** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:25 pm

@Ed Lee

OtakuViking · Post by **OtakuViking** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:35 pm

Trigger thingy. Btw, copy my board and you can use numbers 4,5,6 etc.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm21 Captures: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:42 pm

@Ortho:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:31 pm

hailthorn, OtakuViking: the move numbers are probably off -- :w21:

should be

, etc.

OtakuViking · Post by **OtakuViking** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:37 pm

Now that you mention it...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Captures: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:58 pm

Ortho,

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:14 pm

Ortho,

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Ortho,

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:48 pm

Ortho,

Follow-up about the bad :b21:

descend and the good capture :b1:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------- $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . 1 . . . . $$ | . X W X O . . $$ | . X X O O . . $$ | . X O O . . . $$ | . X X O . . . $$ | . . O X . . . $$ | . . O . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

If W still descends to :w2:

, B will not reply at (a) (which is the resulting shape in the game) --
B will ignore :w2:

, as it is gote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------- $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . X a 2 . . $$ | . X . X O . . $$ | . X X O O . . $$ | . X O O . . . $$ | . X X O . . . $$ | . . O X . . . $$ | . . O . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

If W ataris with :w2:

instead, it is still gote, and B will also ignore it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------- $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . X 2 . . . $$ | . X . X O . . $$ | . X X O O . . $$ | . X O O . . . $$ | . X X O . . . $$ | . . O X . . . $$ | . . O . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

And if W ignores :b1:

, then later B has the nice follow-up of :b3:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B tenuki $$ --------------- $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . 1 . 3 . . $$ | . X W X O . . $$ | . X X O O . . $$ | . X O O . . . $$ | . X X O . . . $$ | . . O X . . . $$ | . . O . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

On your question about B's monkey jump, B has no chance to play it, because of :w22:

, as we saw in the game.
If any of this is still not clear, please say so.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:50 pm

ed:

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:36 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Captures: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . B . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:43 pm

Ortho · Post by **Ortho** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:44 am

@Ed, et al.

perceval · Post by **perceval** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:07 am

Classic question : how do you handle stones near a wall ?
here the distance (please correct if i am wrong) of K16 to the W wall seems ok to me, so does that mean that the stone should be left alone ?
that would hinder the whole W wall purpose ?.
to try to use it, is the corner approach O17 a good idea ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Captures: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . B . 6 . 4 . X . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Usually i dislike playing this approach with an enemy stone at K16 as the O17 group is not comfortable but here maybe K16 is more uncomfortable ? a running battle will follow, will the Wall be useful or made irrelevant ?? i cant decide
example of running battle:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Captures: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . B . 6 . 4 . X . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . 7 . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i really cant say if i prefer B or W, any insights ?
is O17 a good move locally (B is not forced to play the kick after all but in that case maybe it puts useful pressure on K16 ) ?or O18 ? or something else ?
(for the whole board there might be bigger area like R10,O3 even if O17 is good locally)

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:32 am

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hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)

Re: hailthorn [8k] vs. OtakuViking [2k] (Game #150)