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153. Simba vs OtakuViking

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=5308

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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:15 am
by EdLee
Simba wrote:I kind of instinctively feel this move is wrong for black, but I'm not entirely sure why (perhaps it's simply too slow)
Indeed :b25: is too slow, too small.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:35 am
by EdLee
For Simba, after the game,
( For beginners. My emphases. )
Simba wrote:it makes it a lot easier for a pincer stone to make something of itself if I approach from one space away. He has a choice of pincers ... to make some kind of sabaki invasion in. And if white pincered then lived in my area on the left..., I could end up with very few points there. ... I would get some thickness on the outside as compensation... but it's not immediately obvious how that would be used.
Very honest and accurate reply by Simba. :clap:
It shows some common (?) misunderstanding and fear at these levels: Simba wants to use his powerful :b17: ponnuki
to make territory directly, and this also explains why he played :b25: (which is too slow).
IF B were able to turn the left side into territory with only one more move, it would be very efficient;
but as yithril pointed out, it's not territory yet (even after :b25:).

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:14 am
by OtakuViking
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Not sure what his plan was with the endgame move of 25, but this attack will let me take control of the game (I hope). I think I should get a favourable result from this even if he gets sente to follow up his endgame move. He might have thought it was sente, or that the three stones were strong enough because of blacks strong position in the lower left. However, in my mind these 3 stones present a nice target for attack. I considered playing a kakari probe on the upper right corner before attacking, but I feel that he could ignore it, so let's start the fun!

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:24 am
by illluck
Oo. Interesting move, but feels jealous - not sure who is being attacked here after black responds (perhaps G14?). Personally I'd just O17.

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:54 pm
by Celebrir
In my oppinnion W is asking to be attacked here. This seems far to close to B's strength. F12 or E11 jump to my mind without thinking to much about the consequences. G14 might be nice as well

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:53 am
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Time to kill. That looks way too deep. I was expecting he'd play something like F10.

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:56 pm
by OtakuViking
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This could turn out so many different ways, but If he plays hane on top I will clamp. If he cuts the stone off and captures, I will gladly sacrifice and gain strength. Let's see what he has in mind.

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:10 am
by Simba
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think this move is nice and solid. First instinct was to hane on top of his 28, but I'd really need to fix the aji around F13 with another move potentially - getting separated would be kind of sucky. This doesn't give white any cool sabaki cross-cutty/counter-hane type options either. I think white went too deep and I'm definitely looking to attack very severely here.
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