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Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:53 pm
by gaius
It's difficult...
I think all of these games are not that far apart. I suck at this guessing game and I didn't really study any of the games properly, but...

game 1: 3 kyu
game 2: 2 dan
game 3: 1 dan
game 4: 2 kyu

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:58 pm
by topazg
I'm pretty surprised that game 4 is pro, and the reason isn't that most of the play was substandard. I thought the opening was all strong, but pretty simple. I was slightly dubious about Black's diagonal in the lower right, but the thing that made me write it off as pro was White 52. The thing that normally marks professional play is the lack of any "pointless" moves... Why on Earth did White play here? I mean, why not just play 54 directly, it's not like Black's going to play 52 and in the end it is just pushing at a bamboo joint? In fact, it's such a fundamental "no" thing to do, that I immediately decided it couldn't even be a dan game. Can someone strong tell me why it's such a good move?

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:13 pm
by SoDesuNe
Okay, I elaborated a bit and I think,... I don't have a clue, so here are my guesses.

1. 11k
2. 9k
3. 4D
4. 12k

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:18 pm
by Kirby
I cannot believe that the 4th game is a pro game... But, I followed the link posted on this forum, and sure enough, it appears to be the same game.

I think I would have better results with this game if I used a random number generator to guess ranks. I am really bad at it myself.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:31 pm
by Harleqin
1. 9k
2. 7d
3. 4d
4. 5d

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:43 pm
by Suji
It was so hard to not look at all of your answers, since I wanted to try it.

After going through the games (And I predict that I'm way, way off) here's what I have.

1. 6k
2. 3d
3. Pro
4. 12k


I'm pretty sure I'm way off base here since _ALL_ the games were probably above my level. :D

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:49 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Game 1: Lot of mistakes here, yet certain shapes get played that I don't think would be played between weaker opponents. I'll say 6k.

Game 2: Two kos are fought, and weaker players tend to be afraid of ko. However, there are a lot of weird moves, like 143 and 162, to name a couple. Still, the players seemed to focus on their weak groups and such. So, I'll write off the weird moves and say 2d.

Game 3: 2d. Some very intense fighting here. Some moves feel weird, so it may be a lower-ranked player, but there are other moves that I don't know a weaker player would play.

Game 4: I was going to say 6d, as the game looked pretty high level save for the missed atari. The missed atari is actually what caused me to write the game off as not being pro, as although it is entirely possible for a high-dan player to miss an atari, I did not think that a pro, who I assume has longer time controls, would miss one. However, I peeked through the hide tags and saw that this actually is a pro game. So that obviously is my answer :D . Feel free to disqualify me if you want, but may I point out that there was no rule explicitly prohibiting reading others' hide tags before posting :D.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:40 pm
by Nikolas73
I'm probably way off, but here we go...

1. 2k
2. Pro
3. 4d (at a glance it looks like one of TheCaptain's games...)
4. 10k


Nik

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:39 pm
by wossname
not too serious answers
1 - 5k
2 - pro
3 - 5d
4 - kghin

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:41 pm
by rubin427
This was fun.
Though, I'll admit, most games above 2 kyu start to look the same to me.

1)Amateur 5 dan
2)Professional 8 dan
3)Amateur 4 dan
4)7 kyu

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:57 pm
by Darrell
My entry:
Game 1: 1k - I was impressed by the opening and at first thought this was pro. Then started taking ranks off as the game progressed. Was at 1k when middle game ended and I saw the DDK endgame. Decided it was two players who just wanted to count but am probably biased by my first impression.

Game 2: 7k - Was not impressed by the opening and early middle game. Some shape moves were missed and I did not think some of the ko threats were very threatening. Still the players know their sector lines so maybe again I am biased by my first impression.

Game 3: 4d - White played some nutty moves so I thought this was a kyu game. But Black did not respond as I expected and I realized that the nutty moves weren't so nutty after all. In fact, they looked like the moves that The Captain might play. I'm guessing that Araban included a celebrity game.

Game 4: Pro - Very precise and calculated opening with play all over the board. Middle game resignation.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:49 pm
by ketchup
Game 1: Two 4k - In game 1, things like m19 exchange on top confuses me. This has to be a kyu game. Shape is decent, so it's higher kyu game. I'd say the game is between two 4ks on KGS. Black lost in yose.

Game 2: Pro or close to it. Game too hard to understand besides a few moves.. The exchanges are daring. The most original opening out of all the games.

Game 3: Two 1k. k7 and p12 seem very odd? Isn't the wall at p15 a lot more interesting than the atari at p12? I'm going to put this game at 1k.

Game 4: Two 10k. Obvious self atari, odd peep at d11, odd timing(see q8). Overall, cannot be anything better than 10k..

I will be sad if I call a pro game as something lower.. It will be very very sad. I doubt sol.ch will use trick games, but who knows!


After looking at the results:

Question for Sol.ch:
Besides the initial laugh/shock of pro self atari, is there a real reason to put this game in the list? I don't quite understand. The play is very very odd. Has there been an in-depth analysis on it? If there has been, can you link it? Seriously feels like both players are playing drunk/ on drugs or throwing the game.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:29 am
by Jonas
ketchup wrote:
Question for Sol.ch:
Besides the initial laugh/shock of pro self atari, is there a real reason to put this game in the list? I don't quite understand. The play is very very odd. Has there been an in-depth analysis on it? If there has been, can you link it? Seriously feels like both players are playing drunk/ on drugs or throwing the game.


Maybe you have a wrong feeling about good shape etc. ~ the opening and middle game looks very very strong.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:21 am
by zinger
ketchup wrote:
Question for Sol.ch:
Besides the initial laugh/shock of pro self atari, is there a real reason to put this game in the list? I don't quite understand. The play is very very odd. Has there been an in-depth analysis on it? If there has been, can you link it? Seriously feels like both players are playing drunk/ on drugs or throwing the game.

To avoid giving out the top prize? :lol:

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:49 am
by Harleqin
I already gave my guesses, and then I looked at the other posts. I have two observations:

I think that it is interesting that so many people judge the 4th game just by the self atari. The rest of the game is just obviously (to me) way above my level.

The first game often gets overrated. I do not know why some people who are even stronger than what I guess the players are cannot see that the upper side was completely mishandled, showing a deep lack of understanding regarding the strength and weakness of stones.