Life In 19x19

C. Blue wrote:Long story short: Don't worry about it, your ban should be lifted after at most 2 days. Also, send email to glue@gokgs.com and explain your situation and ask for the "deranking" being undone. (Deranking means your rank, ie kyu/dan, is removed from your account).

Glue resigned from KGS, she's no long around. Living minecraft I believe

palapiku wrote:I find it odd that people justify improper response and lack of understanding from KGS admins by saying they are not native speakers.

Surely, if their English is bad enough to cause misunderstanding, they should stick to dealing with people they can communicate with?

This sets the bar much, much too high.....as it stands we have occasional misunderstandings between Aussie, UK, and US English speakers (all of whom are native...sometimes even just within different geographic areas of the same country)...much less others who are non-native. There's a difference in being able to adequately communicate in a language and being able to understand the nuance and attitude of expressions and colloquialisms for all English speaking cultures worldwide.

Mef wrote:This sets the bar much, much too high.....as it stands we have occasional misunderstandings between Aussie, UK, and US English speakers (all of whom are native...sometimes even just within different geographic areas of the same country)...much less others who are non-native. There's a difference in being able to adequately communicate in a language and being able to understand the nuance and attitude of expressions and colloquialisms for all English speaking cultures worldwide.

This is just silly. Obviously people should be careful on the internet about communicating clearly, but there is no reason that avoiding being banned should require someone to explain their situation to someone who doesn't speak english.

speedchase wrote:

Mef wrote:This sets the bar much, much too high.....as it stands we have occasional misunderstandings between Aussie, UK, and US English speakers (all of whom are native...sometimes even just within different geographic areas of the same country)...much less others who are non-native. There's a difference in being able to adequately communicate in a language and being able to understand the nuance and attitude of expressions and colloquialisms for all English speaking cultures worldwide.

This is just silly. Obviously people should be careful on the internet about communicating clearly, but there is no reason that avoiding being banned should require someone to explain their situation to someone who doesn't speak english.

As I read the OP, the admin was speaking in English, and asking to have a serious conversation, but was not being taken seriously (perhaps due to his formal phrasing). Hardly the situation you describe.

Mef wrote:

speedchase wrote:

Mef wrote:This sets the bar much, much too high.....as it stands we have occasional misunderstandings between Aussie, UK, and US English speakers (all of whom are native...sometimes even just within different geographic areas of the same country)...much less others who are non-native. There's a difference in being able to adequately communicate in a language and being able to understand the nuance and attitude of expressions and colloquialisms for all English speaking cultures worldwide.

This is just silly. Obviously people should be careful on the internet about communicating clearly, but there is no reason that avoiding being banned should require someone to explain their situation to someone who doesn't speak english.

As I read the OP, the admin was speaking in English, and asking to have a serious conversation, but was not being taken seriously (perhaps due to his formal phrasing). Hardly the situation you describe.

I think I'd be "lol'ing" at someone who was "accusing" me of having multiple accounts... on a public server... where having multiple accounts is generally considered par for the course (I can't count the number of times I've seen people recommend starting a new account to escape rank-lock/stagnation).

I mean, even if the guy has a badge, how could anyone possibly take such an accusation seriously?

Edit:

I've also seen people who talked about having multiple accounts for different styles/conditions; one account might be for slow games, one for blitz, and one for when they're drunk. Doubtless, these would all result in varying ranks.

Also, if multiple family members play Go on KGS, they'll each be logging in from the same IP address at the very least (and possibly the same computer). Or maybe someone will want to log-in from an Internet cafe... and maybe others have logged into KGS from that same cafe.

The more I think about it, the more preposterous it is to accuse someone of having multiple accounts or even rank-abuse based solely on IP address access records.

LocoRon wrote:Also, if multiple family members play Go on KGS, they'll each be logging in from the same IP address at the very least (and possibly the same computer). Or maybe someone will want to log-in from an Internet cafe... and maybe others have logged into KGS from that same cafe.

The more I think about it, the more preposterous it is to accuse someone of having multiple accounts or even rank-abuse based solely on IP address access records.

The administrators are not being totally unreasonable because few of us have their computers set up for multiple users and mostly connect from home. Perhaps what is needed is some way to inform administrators that in this case IP address does not equal user.

Mike Novack wrote:few of us have their computers set up for multiple users

Few of us on L19, perhaps. But KGS is designed to be a family-friendly server, with many of the policies designed around the idea that children will be among the userbase. How many children have their own computers? And how many children share their parent's computer (eg, "a family computer")? In either case, if the child plays Go, I think it's a fair assumption that someone else in the family plays Go as well. If the child plays on KGS, I think it's still a fair assumption that someone else in the family also plays on KGS. And regardless of whether or not they're sharing the computer, they are sharing the same IP address.

You don't even need to have multiple users on the same computer. Just being on the same home connection will give the same ip address.

I have like 7 kgs accounts (most of them deleted from inactivity). And I know some people who have like 20 alternate accounts.

Mistaking what I was saying.

Not unreasonable for an administrator to at first assume 1 IP address = 1 user.

But at the same time the administrator needs to have a way of being informed that this IP address has multiple users. And if the information is that the IP address is that of a "public" access point must treat as non-bannable. Multiple accounts (different people) from a home IP address the administrator should (at least at first) also accept as true -- until/unless doubts become reasonable.

Look, one of the reasons I don't use the servers is that for me impractical from home. I'd be accused of being an "escaper" every time I had to break the connection to allow the phone line to be used for voice communication. That's right, no broadband out here in the sticks, just dial-up, phone lines not good enough even for DSL. But if I did load a laptop into the car and drive to town where I could get connectivity I'd always be coming in from one of several different IP addresses (the library, the food coop, this or that restaurant, etc.)

Forgive me for straying into OT realms but …

Mike Novack wrote:[..] one of the reasons I don't use the servers is that for me impractical from home. I'd be acused of being an "escaper" every time I had to break the connection to allow the phone line to be used for voice communication. That's right, no broadband out here in the sticks, just dial-up, phone lines not good enough even for DSL. [..]

Sounds like one of the turn based Go servers might be something for you since this gives you plenty of time offline to ponder over your game.

http://www.dragongoserver.net/
http://www.online-go.com/

Greetings, Tom


<edit>
Originally I had written “round based” instead of “turn based”. Thanks for the correction, Michael!
</edit>

Eizero wrote:I have like 7 kgs accounts (most of them deleted from inactivity). And I know some people who have like 20 alternate accounts.

We are not bothered by that---many admins have multiple accounts.

But we do take notice when two accounts play Rated against each other from the same IP address, since there's no way we can tell if they are separate people.

Biometric logins would be great....

Mike Novack wrote:Mistaking what I was saying.

Not unreasonable for an administrator to at first assume 1 IP address = 1 user.

But at the same time the administrator needs to have a way of being informed that this IP address has multiple users. And if the information is that the IP address is that of a "public" access point must treat as non-bannable. Multiple accounts (different people) from a home IP address the administrator should (at least at first) also accept as true -- until/unless doubts become reasonable.

Look, one of the reasons I don't use the servers is that for me impractical from home. I'd be accused of being an "escaper" every time I had to break the connection to allow the phone line to be used for voice communication. That's right, no broadband out here in the sticks, just dial-up, phone lines not good enough even for DSL. But if I did load a laptop into the car and drive to town where I could get connectivity I'd always be coming in from one of several different IP addresses (the library, the food coop, this or that restaurant, etc.)

When I started playing I was on dialup, too. Just add an informative note in your profile, and try to finish games. You are only marked as a escaper if you don't finish games where you left, but you *can* finish them. If you do, you are not marked as an escaper.

Mike Novack wrote:Mistaking what I was saying.

Not unreasonable for an administrator to at first assume 1 IP address = 1 user.

But at the same time the administrator needs to have a way of being informed that this IP address has multiple users. And if the information is that the IP address is that of a "public" access point must treat as non-bannable. Multiple accounts (different people) from a home IP address the administrator should (at least at first) also accept as true -- until/unless doubts become reasonable.

Look, one of the reasons I don't use the servers is that for me impractical from home. I'd be accused of being an "escaper" every time I had to break the connection to allow the phone line to be used for voice communication. That's right, no broadband out here in the sticks, just dial-up, phone lines not good enough even for DSL. But if I did load a laptop into the car and drive to town where I could get connectivity I'd always be coming in from one of several different IP addresses (the library, the food coop, this or that restaurant, etc.)

All I have to do is disconnect and reconnect my router -> ISP connection and "tada", new IP address. Unless you're in a region where you are always assigned a static IP, or one of the rare individuals that have paid for it as an optional service, this is normally the case.

I think it is unreasonable for an admin to assume anything based on limited data availability. Multiple users on the same IP isn't rare (schools and colleges particularly), and multiple IP addresses for a single user is also not rare (people accessing the internet from multiple places).

Bonobo wrote:Forgive me for straying into OT realms but …

Mike Novack wrote:[..] one of the reasons I don't use the servers is that for me impractical from home. I'd be acused of being an "escaper" every time I had to break the connection to allow the phone line to be used for voice communication. That's right, no broadband out here in the sticks, just dial-up, phone lines not good enough even for DSL. [..]

Sounds like one of the round based Go servers might be something for you since this gives you plenty of time offline to ponder over your game.

http://www.dragongoserver.net/
http://www.online-go.com/

Greetings, Tom

Yes, you never have to "escape" if you get a phone call of someone near by wants your attention and diverts you from the game for 10 minutes, or even if you have a really lousy connection (there are no "connections".) Also, both have smart phone clients for playing on the run.

BTW, "round based" is commonly known as "turn-based" if you are searching for information.