36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by walleye »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . W . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The focus now is on the lower side. I cannot let black connect K4 to his group on the right side. I want to play between these two groups but it's not easy to find the right point.

This is the standard way to attack but it looks too risky in this case.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In addition, P4 doesn't look like sente. The corner will live as far as I can see. Here's one possible sequence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . O O X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 5 . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since Black is playing well I decided to do something sensible, like making shape. I think I can still break through since Black's two stones at O6 are not so strong. This is terribly slow but my fast moves haven't worked out very well. Perhaps this way of playing will turn out to be better against Phelan.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Phelan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


walleye's move might not look like a cut, but it's even better (to my eyes) than what I had posted before. It gets eyespace for the white group, and leaves no possible counter cut behind. It's thick.
It also threatens to attack either the two black stones above, or the lower middle stone, as the other cut did. It shifts the balance of power in this zone towards white.

I'm taking some influence. It's still shaky because of the cutting stone and the one point jumps, so it doesn't make a moyo yet, but it threatens to make one. I'll probably have a hard fight in the center, but I prefer my move to something that might secure the cutting stone, and leave access to the center, such as a, b or c.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . a c b O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by walleye »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So Black took advantage of my risky play earlier and he is now in control of the game. Let's see how far he can take it.

Not much reading here. Naturally I need to move out.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Chew Terr »

walleye:
I never know how to respond to this sort of separation. If you were black, how would you respond to this position?
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by walleye »

Chew Terr:

Marked stone is behind my sector line, between L5 and F3. Black just needs to move out at a or b. No need to do anything crazy since Black is leading by a lot. Of course, it is possible to play more aggressively, perhaps a knight move at K7 or something like that, but there is no need to.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a . Y . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Phelan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This was the move that I wanted to do yesterday, but decided to sleep on. Still looks the best. I'm trading the bottom for a good center. Also, the bottom still has aji I can use to reduce/live there later, unless he spends moves neutralizing it.

I was afraid of the cut, but there's no problem:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Cut isn't problematic
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . B 2 3 5 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Dusk Eagle »

Chew Terr:
Phelan's move is the normal shape for responding to this separation (or the other, symmetrical point. However, circumstances may call for something else, so don't necessarily play it automatically. This is no comment on how good or bad Phelan's move is in this circumstance; it's just a general statement.
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No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Harleqin »

It would really help Phelan if he did not only read out the hardest resistance but also the best resistance to his move. His move is OK, I think, but if read just two moves further, he would realize that his claim that he were sacrificing the bottom is premature.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Chew Terr »

Walleye: Thanks! When someone starts to explain something and says the phrase
sector lines
, suddenly I understand what they're going to say and it all seems intuitive. Clearly, I should be thinking in those terms myself, and not just when things are explained to me.

Dusk Eagle: Thanks, I'll try to remember to consider that move in response to this shape.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by walleye »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to continue here. Letting Black play on this point would be intolerable.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Phelan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . B . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems the best way to use the aji of the black stone without actually extending. I expect the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 3 . X . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 2 O O . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 5 B . X . O . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Aphelion »

I wasn't enarmored of Black's first few moves, but the last couple I really like. I think White is going to have his hands full this game.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by walleye »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
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A simple shape move. It also somewhat simplifies my access to the center.
I think my stone at F3 still has enough mobility to take care of itself.

I really wanted to jump from F3 instead but the shape won.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
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This wouldn't be good. My long string of stones becomes quite useless.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by Phelan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
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Like I've said before, I'm not expecting to make much out of the bottom, just use its aji to make my center stronger.
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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Re: 36. walleye (2k) vs. Phelan (7k)

Post by walleye »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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This is a difficult moment for White. Even if I capture something on the bottom side, the center is just too big. I have to reduce it but it is hard to find the right point for doing that.

The point I played gives me some flexibility. It is also a ladder breaker, which might be important later.

If Black attacks with :b2: , I have some space around b for making some shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
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On the other hand, if I play farther from the wall, Black will be getting too many points there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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