Life In 19x19

My experience with yunzi in general is that the manufacturing process can leave voids in the material where the sintering did not fully occur. If you hold up some of the stones to the light, you can sometimes see bubbles where this is the case (particularly in black stones). I haven't heard of many, if any, breaking without a serious trauma after the first use or two, however. It seems that shipping and a bit of playing at most is all that is needed to weed out the bad eggs.

daal wrote:I recently bought a set of Korean glass stones, and there were more than 180 Black ones, and less than 180 white ones. Nonetheless, when I put them into my bowls, not all of the white ones fit, so the set I now use has about 180 black stones and 160 white ones - so that they look good in the bowls. :p

That's weird. Black stones are a little bigger than the white ones. So black stones should be more full in the bowls, when the quantity is same.

skydyr wrote:My experience with yunzi in general is that the manufacturing process can leave voids in the material where the sintering did not fully occur. If you hold up some of the stones to the light, you can sometimes see bubbles where this is the case (particularly in black stones). I haven't heard of many, if any, breaking without a serious trauma after the first use or two, however. It seems that shipping and a bit of playing at most is all that is needed to weed out the bad eggs.

I've heard of a yunzi stone exploding. It wasn't severe, and most likely rare as hell, but it happened.

Annihilist wrote:

skydyr wrote:My experience with yunzi in general is that the manufacturing process can leave voids in the material where the sintering did not fully occur. If you hold up some of the stones to the light, you can sometimes see bubbles where this is the case (particularly in black stones). I haven't heard of many, if any, breaking without a serious trauma after the first use or two, however. It seems that shipping and a bit of playing at most is all that is needed to weed out the bad eggs.

I've heard of a yunzi stone exploding. It wasn't severe, and most likely rare as hell, but it happened.

I've seen one or two break like that, but never in a set that had been used for a while.

Hi everyone,

First of all thank you very much for contributing so many different view points and advices regarding my initial request. I am very much impressed by your generosity in helping resolving this issue and providing an interesting discussion about yunzi stones in general.

From my side, I'd like to conclude my original problem with some comments:

- @bonobo: thanks for contributing contextual information about Hebsacker. It was certainly not my intention to badmouth Go enthusiasts. That said, from the outside, and from the viewpoint of a Go beginner, it is impossible to tell the difference between people trying to ethically moneytise a passion, and those who see mass selling of Go equipment as an opportunity to make a quick buck.

- On the question of what stones to buy: Saying that getting stones A or B is a personal taste is only half the story. When you start looking into Go, like me right now, the amount of information is absolutely overwhelming. It is very hard to figure out how to get started, what to buy, etc. There are no Go clubs where I live so the only information I can have access to is web based. To complicate things further Go is different from short lived mass consumerist products, Go is a cultural artefact with a rich history and it is not obvious to navigate in such a rhizome when you start. Said differently, since I started to look into Go last September, I acquired a lot of horizontal knowledge with little to no depth. I ended up buying yunzi as a result of this navigation in such a knowledge. It was a personal choice, but one that is merely the result of limited information on the topic.

- @Alguien: Just to clear things up, I hope you did not read my reference to your post as an indirect way to hold you responsible to have chosen to order at Hebsacker. I was just mentioning how I learned about the shop, no more no less. It is a shame indeed that I completely missed the part about the 179 stones. I guess was mostly focussing on your mesmerising photos!

- On the issue of the number of stones: I appreciate equally the feedback from people who understand my frustration and also the kind reminder from others that I should avoid falling into an obsessive trap. Of course I can play with less stones, but next to the commercial transaction issue, I want to add that being a beginner, the games I played with my family at xmas involves a lot of capturing as we are not so much refined strategists yet. In such beginner games the amount of stones used on the Goban and taken as prisoners is very large, not to the point where all the stones where used, but close enough to motivate me to ask for the missing ones. Next to that, one thing that triggered my interest in Go is its rich cultural and historical context, so having read about the the relationship between the go board and the lunar year, the number of stones becomes, if not magical, maybe one of these subconscious factors that make you enjoy Go more than more contemporary creations.

- Hebsacker: Thank you for taking the trouble to come here and respond to this issue. Do not mistake this thread for anger, if anything, it is frustration and insecurity. As I said, I am a beginner in this community/scene/subculture and it is unclear to me what is acceptable or not, what are the unspoken rules in such cases, etc. I gladly accept your offer to send me the missing four stones and will certainly order to your shop again.

And now I shall play a bit...

In such beginner games the amount of stones used on the Goban and taken as prisoners is very large, not to the point where all the stones where used, but close enough to motivate me to ask for the missing ones.

This doesn't change anything about your post, but one thing to remember is that if you run out of stones, you can do a "prisoner exchange" with your opponent. I kind of think of it as adding a spy element to the war that is go

Each player takes an equal number of prisoners and places them into their respective bowls.

msgreg wrote:This doesn't change anything about your post, but one thing to remember is that if you run out of stones, you can do a "prisoner exchange" with your opponent. I kind of think of it as adding a spy element to the war that is go

Each player takes an equal number of prisoners and places them into their respective bowls.

Ooooh I did not know this one. Nice

amphipoda wrote:[..]

From my side, I'd like to conclude [..]

Usually I’d only have clicked “like” on that button in your post but since that thought befell me that perhaps not everybody has the forum skin that shows likes I fear I must respond a little bit more often with “me too” or “cool” or “thank you” or the like.

Very nice conclusion <like>

And now I shall play a bit...

GG

amphipoda wrote:I want to add that being a beginner, the games I played with my family at xmas involves a lot of capturing as we are not so much refined strategists yet. In such beginner games the amount of stones used on the Goban and taken as prisoners is very large, not to the point where all the stones where used, but close enough to motivate me to ask for the missing ones.

Play on 9x9, your family might have more fun that way.

I remember that my very first go games on 19x19 were actually almost capture-free, as we peacefully divided the board into uncontested territories. Of course, that was after some tactical explorations on 9x9.

Also from a theoretical perspective: There's no upper limit to the amount of moves in a go game. So 181+180 stones will not necessarily be enough either, you might still have to exchange prisoners.

Glad to hear this is resolved.

Annihilist wrote:

skydyr wrote:My experience with yunzi in general is that the manufacturing process can leave voids in the material where the sintering did not fully occur. If you hold up some of the stones to the light, you can sometimes see bubbles where this is the case (particularly in black stones). I haven't heard of many, if any, breaking without a serious trauma after the first use or two, however. It seems that shipping and a bit of playing at most is all that is needed to weed out the bad eggs.

I've heard of a yunzi stone exploding. It wasn't severe, and most likely rare as hell, but it happened.

Yep. It happened to me! It happened while I was away at work, and it was nothing severe. But it was surprising.

Tim C Koppang wrote:

Annihilist wrote:

skydyr wrote:My experience with yunzi in general is that the manufacturing process can leave voids in the material where the sintering did not fully occur. If you hold up some of the stones to the light, you can sometimes see bubbles where this is the case (particularly in black stones). I haven't heard of many, if any, breaking without a serious trauma after the first use or two, however. It seems that shipping and a bit of playing at most is all that is needed to weed out the bad eggs.

I've heard of a yunzi stone exploding. It wasn't severe, and most likely rare as hell, but it happened.

Yep. It happened to me! It happened while I was away at work, and it was nothing severe. But it was surprising.

That's exactly the case I was referring to, didn't remember it was here though.

The good news is that I've had no problems since then. All of my other stones have held up quite well. What a bizarre fluke, though.

Hi everyone,

I received the replacement stones from Hebsacker Verlag!

They arrived very fast, and my late reply is in fact due to me getting the flu shortly after posting here and then catching up with work...

The best part is that I actually received more stones than I asked, and in the package there was also a small pack of very nice Go related postcards! This was more than expected. I am very grateful.

Here is a quick shot of the goodie pack:


If an admin/mod wants to lock the thread, please go ahead. And one more time, thanks everyone here and thanks Hebsacker Verlag for dealing with this issue in such a nice way.