Life In 19x19

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:44 pm**

Those are the stats for White's next play rather than Black's.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:23 pm**

I meant your option b, not Black.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:13 pm**

ez4u wrote:Flattery will get you everywhere!

Thanks for this detailed post, ez4u. I must admit that I was PUI ("posting under the influence") last night, but nonetheless, the sentiment I expressed holds.

ez4u wrote:Let's step back to the beginning with our database...
...
In the 182 games where White pulls back at , we see that Black connects at 145 times, plays the hanging connection at "a" 27 times, jumps into the center at "b" (invented by Takemiya of course) 7 times, plays on the right at "c" twice, and plays in the upper left (at "d") a grand total of once.

This is a fascinating analysis, and the argument against "d" is convincing. :-)

Personally, I feel that 437 is a low sample size to get strong meaning from a position, however, given the variance in play (eg. "d" being played once, with :b5:

being played 145 times), it would seem that even a low sample size is somewhat convincing for the current argument.

ez4u wrote:Now repeat after me, "This is natural since Black's potential framework from the upper right wrapping around the lower right to the lower left is bigger than White's framework on the left side (this is important!!!)."

I do not feel that I think of the game in this way. Especially in the opening, I don't try to process the idea of, "Is this framework bigger than the opponent's framework?" Instead, I follow a more greedy approach thinking, "What is the maximum that I can get away with? I want to leave him with as little as possible, and me with as much as possible." Awhile back, someone posted about an AI mancala competition. The winning algorithm tried to win marginally, not by a lot. It always tried to get just a little more than the opponent. The analogy was made that this is true in go, too. And maybe it is.

But for some reason - I really don't know what it is - I am always afraid to play like this. Perhaps this is fundamentally because I am not confident in my ability to measure relative value? For example, I had no idea that black's potential framework was bigger than white's on the left side.

I trust that you are correct, but that's mostly because I have no idea how to know this myself (except that you've just told me!)

ez4u wrote:Currently I think you way over-value sente. Note that in this game, as in nearly every game, , , , and below were ALL gote. What were you knitwits tinking? How could you make four gote moves in a row? Weren't you worried about that!
...

This is an interesting thought. Perhaps I do over-value sente. I wonder if it is related to my lack of confidence in measuring relative value of positions.

That is, if I always try to increase what I have and decrease what my opponent has, I never have to try to measure relative value. I can avoid this, and just trust that my efforts to increase what I have and decrease what they have will result in an end score that is in my favor.

ez4u wrote:Have you watched Bat's lectures on youtube? ...

No, I haven't. Perhaps this is something I should do. I've heard of the name before.

---------------------

Summary of Thoughts
Your post had many interesting ideas in it. Perhaps some general principles that stick out to me are the ideas that I:
1.) Over-value sente
2.) Do not have confidence in my ability (or lack thereof) to measure the relative value of territory

I feel that it's possible that these two are related. Maybe because of #2, I hold to #1.

To be honest, I don't know how to fix #2. Perhaps watching this Bat guy's lectures will help. But as it's my allotted time for playing a game coming up, I will try an experiment. I will try to play this upcoming game without trying to take sente as much. In other words, I'll try to force myself to play gote.

This still doesn't help at all with #2, but I feel like experimenting today.

Thank you for your input.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:26 pm**

I tried to play gote this game. It didn't work out too well, but maybe that's because of reading more than my playing gote..
I might try it again tomorrow.

All in all, I'm confused about everything.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:17 pm**

Kirby wrote:I'll try to force myself to play gote.

Kirby, this is interesting; it's like playing bad moves on purpose --
Curious to hear about the results of your experiment. Good luck.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:04 pm**

EdLee wrote:
Kirby wrote:I'll try to force myself to play gote.
Kirby, this is interesting; it's like playing bad moves on purpose --
Curious to hear about the results of your experiment. Good luck.

Well, it's possible that I misinterpreted what ez4u was getting at, but my impression is that I value sente too much. I don't want to play gote to play a "bad" move, but maybe if I try to go against my current mindset, I can realize the benefits that I can get by playing gote.

I dunno, maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way. But if I value sente too much, it seems that I should stop trying so hard to play sente. :-)

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:04 pm**

I lost the last game I tried this with, as you can see, but I'll play another one in a few minutes here, and try it again.

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:01 pm**

I tried to play more calmly, again. I lost my patience a few times, and at times thought I should have been more aggressive.

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:00 am**

The adventures of Kirby the Gote Master make fun reading. Thanks!

In the game from post #34, a really interesting fact is that in the position below, after Black captures the two stones on the left side with A11 (move 121), White can reduce Black to one eye at the top with :w1:

. If Black answers with :b2:

,

makes a six-point placement shape.

If instead Black plays 2 at 3 to prevent that shape, White can cut at 2 with 4 and the marked stones are caught in a shortage of liberties, e.g. Black 5 at "a", White "b" atari, and Black can not connect the stones. :rambo:

Right at the moment, it looks difficult to contain Black if he plays :b4:

and

due to the bad aji around "c". But as the game went on various choices could have been made differently to build strength in the center with this sequence in mind. Missing the follow up play at "c" in the ko fight may have cost White about 80 points! :blackeye:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Only One Eye! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . b B . 3 O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O B O . O X O X X . . X O O . . | $$ | . O B B B 2 O a X O O X . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O O 1 X X X X O O O X X X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O c . X O . X X O O . | $$ | . . X O O 5 . X O X . X O X O X X O . | $$ | . . O . O . 4 . O . . O . O O X . X . | $$ | . X X O . . 6 O . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . O O , O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A move I found particularly interesting was the hane at M16 below. I sort of cringed when you wrote, "Hmm, OK. I could keep attacking, but maybe M16 is a "calm" move. I don't usually play calmly." I don't usually play that calmly either but it had a tremendous effect toward the left, which is exactly where White had built his framework previously. :tmbup:

Black continued with a standard "joseki" up to 9. However, what if White had connected at "a" instead of playing 9. I think this would be interesting too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc White 1 Impressive! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O 8 4 . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . 1 . X a O 5 . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black goes ahead and takes the corner, Black cuts with 3 and 5 and has an excellent result on the top side. The marked stone is just right to support this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc White 1 Impressive! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 X O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O X X . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . W . X 1 O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So probably Black has to compromise with :b1:

below. But White can calmly answer 5 with 6, take the corner with 8, and treat 9 and 10 as miai. If Black plays atari with "a" and White connects with "b", White is building up the framework on the left plus points on the right. If something like the exchange of "c" for "d" follows, White is very happy while Black is not out of the woods yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Compromise, calmly 7 at P18 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . 3 2 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . 1 4 X O 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O X X . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O b O 9 X O O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . a . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . d . . . c . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game, I thought that :w1:

below was a bit of the wild and woolly Kirby showing through. :rambo:

In the game, when Black answered at :b2:

, White felt the need to go back to :w3:

and got into some difficulty when Black continued with :b4:

. Playing

or "a" from the direction of the framework in the first place might have been better. If White then answers 2 on the right somehow, Black runs on a neutral point (say 1) and White calmly approaches in the lower left, e.g. "b", White is comfortable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc A Momentary Loss of Concentration? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . O . X X O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . X . 2 4 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . a 3 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , b . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:15 pm**

ez4u wrote:The adventures of Kirby the Gote Master make fun reading. Thanks!

Thanks, I'm having fun, too. It's also nice to get feedback. Have you read The Way of the Peaceful Warrior? You remind me of the main character in this book.

ez4u wrote:
$$Wc Only One Eye!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . b B . 3 O X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O B O . O X O X X . . X O O . . |
$$ | . O B B B 2 O a X O O X . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O 1 X X X X O O O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X O c . X O . X X O O . |
$$ | . . X O O 5 . X O X . X O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . O . O . 4 . O . . O . O O X . X . |
$$ | . X X O . . 6 O . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Only One Eye! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . b B . 3 O X O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O B O . O X O X X . . X O O . . | $$ | . O B B B 2 O a X O O X . X . X X O . | $$ | . . O O 1 X X X X O O O X X X O O . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O c . X O . X X O O . | $$ | . . X O O 5 . X O X . X O X O X X O . | $$ | . . O . O . 4 . O . . O . O O X . X . | $$ | . X X O . . 6 O . . . . . O X X X . . | $$ | X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O O X O . | $$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . O O , O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Believe it or not, I did think of reducing him to one eye here when I was playing there locally, but perhaps my I lost focus by the time I came to this point in the game. Again, I was concerned about my opponent's stake at the bottom, and forgot about the prospects at the top.

ez4u wrote:
$$Wc White 1 Impressive!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O 8 4 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . 1 . X a O 5 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White 1 Impressive! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O 8 4 . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . 1 . X a O 5 . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black goes ahead and takes the corner, Black cuts with 3 and 5 and has an excellent result on the top side. The marked stone is just right to support this.

$$Wc White 1 Impressive!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 X O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . W . X 1 O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White 1 Impressive! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 X O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O X X . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . O . W . X 1 O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I totally agree. I love this alternative to what I played.

ez4u wrote:
In the game, I thought that below was a bit of the wild and woolly Kirby showing through.

Hmm, perhaps, yes. As it turns out, I think I recall thinking that :w1:

was not wild, but calm. As the game shows, it was not. I like the idea of calmly jumping at :w3:

or "a", however, this way of playing doesn't seem natural to me.

In general, I do not understand "neutral points" that well. Sure, they are intersections that do not have value or equate to points at the end of the game. But I don't see the board in an "endgame" sense this early (at least not naturally right now).

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:09 pm**

I won this game, but I kind of stole it. I think my opponent could have played differently for one move, and maybe would have won.

That said, before that I should have protected my weakness, and maybe it would still be an unknown result.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:08 am**

Kirby wrote:I won this game, but I kind of stole it. I think my opponent could have played differently for one move, and maybe would have won.

That said, before that I should have protected my weakness, and maybe it would still be an unknown result.

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[600]OT[5x20 byo-yomi]
PW[me]PB[adversary]WR[1k]BR[1k]DT[2013-06-17]C[I played white.]RE[W+Resign]
;B[qd]BL[591.454]
;W[dd]WL[597.769]
;B[pq]BL[586.396]
;W[dp]WL[594.554]
;B[fc]BL[584.36]C[Just calmly respond. I'm even white this game...]
;W[cf]WL[591.046]
;B[fq]BL[581.308]C[Hm. He plays like I do. Haha.

I could C6, but it seems more balanced to do D6.]
;W[dn]WL[580.988]
;B[jp]BL[578.875]C[Basically Kobayashi fuseki, but I don't know if it counts with R16 instead of Q16.

Anyway, I "know" that Q5 and R5 are wrong. I think it's because black's followup pincer is good for black...

I also "know" that it's possible to play R6 here.

But even though I "know" this, I do not really *know* this. I haven't had much experience with it to know it's bad...

So maybe I'll simply play Q5 even though I "know" it's bad...

Well. Black's pincer wouldn't be super great... So I guess I'll play what I "know" and go with R6. It's less likely he'll pincer, and I can make a calm base on the right side.

(**Post-game thinking: I didn't really know.**)]
;W[qn]WL[456.728]
;B[qp]BL[567.984]C[I wonder if R10 is OK...? Reminds me of Ishida's dictionary. Still, I don't understand it. So I'll play R9. He'll crunch me with R11 almost for sure - I know I would.

But I'll then tenuki to play on top.

I see a lot of various sequences on how to "attack" a two space extension like I'll make R9.

But I don't think white is in super bad shape with anything I remember...

So I can afford to tenuki.]
;W[qk]WL[453.695]
;B[qi]BL[564.155]
;W[od]WL[449.365]C[(**Post-game thinking: I'm not sure if it's OK to tenuki now or not. But maybe it's OK.**)]
;B[oc]BL[556.474]
;W[nc]WL[444.828]C[OK, perfect, now I can select what I want to play on top - given he's already F17, I'll K17 after O16.

(**Post-game thinking: In retrospect, maybe N16, him Q14 or whatever, then me J17 is better - seems like a tighter pincer.**)]
;B[pc]BL[555.488]
;W[nd]WL[443.373]
;B[pf]BL[554.588]
;W[jc]WL[440.457]
;B[dc]BL[552.194]
;W[cc]WL[438.107]
;B[cb]BL[550.372]
;W[ec]WL[427.973]
;B[db]BL[548.62]C[E16 should be OK. If he ignores E18, I can play there, and it goes so so with K17 et. al.]
;W[ed]WL[426.565]
;B[eb]BL[545.706]
;W[bc]WL[424.288]
;B[hc]BL[537.406]C[Cannot... resist... playing... G18!]
;W[gb]WL[415.92]C[(**Post-game thinking: This wasn't too "calm". I don't know if it was good.**)]
;B[gc]BL[529.093]
;W[hb]WL[410.177]
;B[fb]BL[516.388]
;W[ic]WL[406.868]C[One-eye in corner. OK. Now build framework while attacking.]
;B[bb]BL[509.409]
;W[ab]WL[392.975]
;B[he]BL[506.692]
;W[jf]WL[386.235]
;B[hg]BL[504.776]
;W[if]WL[381.869]
;B[hf]BL[502.475]C[I could D12... But seems unnatural and not really "attacking". I guess I boshi, then follow up to protect left.]
;W[hi]WL[373.602]
;B[fg]BL[498.126]
;W[dh]WL[364.996]C[Feels great and natural.]
;B[gi]BL[482.876]C[Hmm, contact play. If I follow his offer, he'll just get stronger, and he can attack what becomes of H11 later.

Maybe I'll just try to strengthen H11 without helping him.... J12.

(**Post-game thinking: In retrospect, J12, of course, leaves a cutting point and doesn't really "protect" H11 anyway. Therefore, maybe it's better to simply play something like D10 and be done with it..
Come to think of it... Was H11 good to begin with?**)]
;W[ih]WL[356.559]
;B[fi]BL[475.777]
;W[dj]WL[353.937]
;B[cl]BL[474.03]C[I guess he feels confident in living, a0nd will now invade..

Seems reasonable. I'll take away some eye space before answering.

]
;W[hh]WL[340.133]
;B[gh]BL[467.593]C[I guess I will defend B10 to get some solid points, then deal with C8 later.

(**Post-game thinking: I don't like B10, but I don't know what is better.**)]
;W[bj]WL[326.47]C[(**Post-game thinking: Seriously, what was better? **)]
;B[el]BL[464.523]
;W[dr]WL[322.051]
;B[bn]BL[461.137]C[Hmm, C5? No, that's no good. Not many points there. I guess H3 to attack back.]
;W[hq]WL[314.845]
;B[cq]BL[456.677]
;W[dq]WL[313.076]
;B[co]BL[455.062]
;W[cp]WL[310.383]
;B[bp]BL[453.354]
;W[bq]WL[307.759]
;B[aq]BL[451.073]
;W[br]WL[304.575]
;B[iq]BL[449.712]C[Hmm, guess he doesn't care about F3. ]
;W[hp]WL[302.496]
;B[hr]BL[445.727]
;W[gr]WL[300.82]
;B[ir]BL[443.494]
;W[fr]WL[299.54]C[I feel "safe" except for J12 and R9... But he's pushing me around more than I would like.]
;B[mq]BL[442.05]C[Hmm. What should I help? I guess I help R9 because that's weak, and I can play P9 to naturally also help J12 in an indirect way...?]
;W[ok]WL[291.894]
;B[on]BL[437.214]C[Hmm, he plays some sort of attacking move. I feel he left R11 too weak. I will strike back.]
;W[qg]WL[288.059]C[(**Post-game thinking: Too aggressive?**)]
;B[pg]BL[435.074]
;W[qh]WL[286.644]
;B[ph]BL[433.696]
;W[ri]WL[284.839]
;B[pi]BL[432.533]C[Seriously? He's letting me have this so easily? I feel somewhat comfortable here.]
;W[rj]WL[283.066]
;B[rf]BL[430.984]C[Hmm, R14 S13 stuff can eiether capture S14 or cut Q15.. Seems good.]
;W[qf]WL[281.166]
;B[qe]BL[422.948]
;W[rg]WL[278.65]
;B[sg]BL[421.089]
;W[rh]WL[277.083]
;B[pe]BL[417.49]
;W[re]WL[275.081]C[(**Post-game thinking: Too early, maybe... It is probably better to protect J12 *right now*. I already live with S13, so no real point to it. Instead, I should HELP J12!

Maybe I should play something like M12? I don't know what move I should play, but I should help J12. Help J12, help J12, help J12, help J12!**)]
;B[rd]BL[414.365]
;W[sf]WL[273.716]
;B[ig]BL[411.472]C[Yeah... Should have helped J12.]
;W[jg]WL[270.153]C[(**Post-game thinking: Up until this point in the game, I don't know if I was always as calm as I should have been. But I can think of two moves I definitely didn't like: S15/T14 and maybe B10.

If I had protected J12, I would have felt a lot more comfortable... I don't know if the way I played was "correct" outside of these two moves, but that's my general thinking.**)]
;B[jh]BL[403.362]C[Hmm. Hane on either side just makes him stronger. Keep him not strong, and just help H11. I can't lose H11, so maybe H10.

(**Post-game thinking: Maybe it's even OK to lose H11. I dunno. **)]
;W[hj]WL[267.062]
;B[ji]BL[398.852]C[Just keep strengthening.]
;W[hl]WL[264.255]
;B[gk]BL[396.253]
;W[hk]WL[260.222]
;B[mh]BL[391.818]C[Hmm. Maybe I can cut him and kill something.

(**Post-game thinking: No... I should protect H8 first. This is a terrible idea when H8 is not strong. I should have strengthened H8 first with maybe H6 or possibly with L8 or something of that nature. Maybe L9.

Anyway, something to make it stronger.

Then after that, I should come back to attack if he hasn't done anything about it.

First I should have protected myself.]
;W[fk]WL[250.481]
;B[gj]BL[386.389]
;W[gl]WL[248.242]
;B[ek]BL[384.228]
;W[ej]WL[246.573]
;B[fl]BL[380.36]
;W[fj]WL[244.953]
;B[fe]BL[367.848]
;W[dm]WL[216.645]C[(**Post-game thinking: Still a bad idea. I should help H8 first.**)]
;B[ck]BL[363.885]
;W[ao]WL[209.226]
;B[fn]BL[358.704]
;W[do]WL[204.989]C[(**Post-game thinking: Seems risky, still...**)]
;B[cj]BL[351.876]
;W[ci]WL[203.344]
;B[bk]BL[347.928]
;W[bi]WL[201.826]
;B[gm]BL[324.378]
;W[hm]WL[183.521]
;B[hn]BL[322.077]
;W[em]WL[181.675]
;B[fm]BL[319.536]
;W[in]WL[179.633]
;B[ho]BL[318.152]
;W[io]WL[167.927]
;B[go]BL[302.332]
;W[fo]WL[165.852]
;B[fp]BL[299.031]
;W[eo]WL[163.176]
;B[an]BL[293.987]
;W[ap]WL[158.745]
;B[bo]BL[291.704]
;W[bm]WL[150.884]
;B[cm]BL[288.908]
;W[ap]WL[146.057]
;B[im]BL[286.686]C[Uh oh.]
;W[jm]WL[111.789]
;B[ip]BL[274.434]C[Oh no...]
;W[gq]WL[84.519]
;B[jn]BL[262.831]C[What?

(**Post game thinking: I think this was a mistake by him. He could have ran at J8 to make two weaknesses: J6 and H7. I think this was his mistake, and cost him his life.**)]
;W[il]WL[80.091]
;B[jo]BL[260.346]
;W[im]WL[76.494]
;B[km]BL[258.766]
;W[kl]WL[74.624]
;B[ll]BL[257.139]
;W[lm]WL[72.906]
;B[kn]BL[255.154]
;W[lk]WL[67.646]
;B[ml]BL[253.621]C[N5 area is kind of big... Oh well, if I kill him maybe it's OK.]
;W[kk]WL[63.419]
;B[mk]BL[251.08]
;W[mj]WL[61.358]
;B[lj]BL[249.012]
;W[li]WL[47.25]
;B[kj]BL[247.159]
;W[jj]WL[45.152]
;B[nj]BL[240.029]
;W[ki]WL[41.836]C[He resigned.])

(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[600]OT[5x20 byo-yomi]
PW[me]PB[adversary]WR[1k]BR[1k]DT[2013-06-17]C[I played white.]RE[W+Resign]
;B[qd]BL[591.454]
;W[dd]WL[597.769]
;B[pq]BL[586.396]
;W[dp]WL[594.554]
;B[fc]BL[584.36]C[Just calmly respond. I'm even white this game...]
;W[cf]WL[591.046]
;B[fq]BL[581.308]C[Hm. He plays like I do. Haha.

I could C6, but it seems more balanced to do D6.]
;W[dn]WL[580.988]
;B[jp]BL[578.875]C[Basically Kobayashi fuseki, but I don't know if it counts with R16 instead of Q16.

Anyway, I "know" that Q5 and R5 are wrong. I think it's because black's followup pincer is good for black...

I also "know" that it's possible to play R6 here.

But even though I "know" this, I do not really *know* this. I haven't had much experience with it to know it's bad...

So maybe I'll simply play Q5 even though I "know" it's bad...

Well. Black's pincer wouldn't be super great... So I guess I'll play what I "know" and go with R6. It's less likely he'll pincer, and I can make a calm base on the right side.

(**Post-game thinking: I didn't really know.**)]
;W[qn]WL[456.728]
;B[qp]BL[567.984]C[I wonder if R10 is OK...? Reminds me of Ishida's dictionary. Still, I don't understand it. So I'll play R9. He'll crunch me with R11 almost for sure - I know I would.

But I'll then tenuki to play on top.

I see a lot of various sequences on how to "attack" a two space extension like I'll make R9.

But I don't think white is in super bad shape with anything I remember...

So I can afford to tenuki.]
;W[qk]WL[453.695]
;B[qi]BL[564.155]
;W[od]WL[449.365]C[(**Post-game thinking: I'm not sure if it's OK to tenuki now or not. But maybe it's OK.**)]
;B[oc]BL[556.474]
;W[nc]WL[444.828]C[OK, perfect, now I can select what I want to play on top - given he's already F17, I'll K17 after O16.

(**Post-game thinking: In retrospect, maybe N16, him Q14 or whatever, then me J17 is better - seems like a tighter pincer.**)]
;B[pc]BL[555.488]
;W[nd]WL[443.373]
;B[pf]BL[554.588]
;W[jc]WL[440.457]
;B[dc]BL[552.194]
;W[cc]WL[438.107]
;B[cb]BL[550.372]
;W[ec]WL[427.973]
;B[db]BL[548.62]C[E16 should be OK. If he ignores E18, I can play there, and it goes so so with K17 et. al.]
;W[ed]WL[426.565]
;B[eb]BL[545.706]
;W[bc]WL[424.288]
;B[hc]BL[537.406]C[Cannot... resist... playing... G18!]
;W[gb]WL[415.92]C[(**Post-game thinking: This wasn't too "calm". I don't know if it was good.**)]
;B[gc]BL[529.093]
;W[hb]WL[410.177]
;B[fb]BL[516.388]
;W[ic]WL[406.868]C[One-eye in corner. OK. Now build framework while attacking.]
;B[bb]BL[509.409]
;W[ab]WL[392.975]
;B[he]BL[506.692]
;W[jf]WL[386.235]
;B[hg]BL[504.776]
;W[if]WL[381.869]
;B[hf]BL[502.475]C[I could D12... But seems unnatural and not really "attacking". I guess I boshi, then follow up to protect left.]
;W[hi]WL[373.602]
;B[fg]BL[498.126]
;W[dh]WL[364.996]C[Feels great and natural.]
;B[gi]BL[482.876]C[Hmm, contact play. If I follow his offer, he'll just get stronger, and he can attack what becomes of H11 later.

Maybe I'll just try to strengthen H11 without helping him.... J12.

(**Post-game thinking: In retrospect, J12, of course, leaves a cutting point and doesn't really "protect" H11 anyway. Therefore, maybe it's better to simply play something like D10 and be done with it..
Come to think of it... Was H11 good to begin with?**)]
;W[ih]WL[356.559]
;B[fi]BL[475.777]
;W[dj]WL[353.937]
;B[cl]BL[474.03]C[I guess he feels confident in living, a0nd will now invade..

Seems reasonable. I'll take away some eye space before answering.

]
;W[hh]WL[340.133]
;B[gh]BL[467.593]C[I guess I will defend B10 to get some solid points, then deal with C8 later.

(**Post-game thinking: I don't like B10, but I don't know what is better.**)]
;W[bj]WL[326.47]C[(**Post-game thinking: Seriously, what was better? **)]
;B[el]BL[464.523]
;W[dr]WL[322.051]
;B[bn]BL[461.137]C[Hmm, C5? No, that's no good. Not many points there. I guess H3 to attack back.]
;W[hq]WL[314.845]
;B[cq]BL[456.677]
;W[dq]WL[313.076]
;B[co]BL[455.062]
;W[cp]WL[310.383]
;B[bp]BL[453.354]
;W[bq]WL[307.759]
;B[aq]BL[451.073]
;W[br]WL[304.575]
;B[iq]BL[449.712]C[Hmm, guess he doesn't care about F3. ]
;W[hp]WL[302.496]
;B[hr]BL[445.727]
;W[gr]WL[300.82]
;B[ir]BL[443.494]
;W[fr]WL[299.54]C[I feel "safe" except for J12 and R9... But he's pushing me around more than I would like.]
;B[mq]BL[442.05]C[Hmm. What should I help? I guess I help R9 because that's weak, and I can play P9 to naturally also help J12 in an indirect way...?]
;W[ok]WL[291.894]
;B[on]BL[437.214]C[Hmm, he plays some sort of attacking move. I feel he left R11 too weak. I will strike back.]
;W[qg]WL[288.059]C[(**Post-game thinking: Too aggressive?**)]
;B[pg]BL[435.074]
;W[qh]WL[286.644]
;B[ph]BL[433.696]
;W[ri]WL[284.839]
;B[pi]BL[432.533]C[Seriously? He's letting me have this so easily? I feel somewhat comfortable here.]
;W[rj]WL[283.066]
;B[rf]BL[430.984]C[Hmm, R14 S13 stuff can eiether capture S14 or cut Q15.. Seems good.]
;W[qf]WL[281.166]
;B[qe]BL[422.948]
;W[rg]WL[278.65]
;B[sg]BL[421.089]
;W[rh]WL[277.083]
;B[pe]BL[417.49]
;W[re]WL[275.081]C[(**Post-game thinking: Too early, maybe... It is probably better to protect J12 *right now*. I already live with S13, so no real point to it. Instead, I should HELP J12!

Maybe I should play something like M12? I don't know what move I should play, but I should help J12. Help J12, help J12, help J12, help J12!**)]
;B[rd]BL[414.365]
;W[sf]WL[273.716]
;B[ig]BL[411.472]C[Yeah... Should have helped J12.]
;W[jg]WL[270.153]C[(**Post-game thinking: Up until this point in the game, I don't know if I was always as calm as I should have been. But I can think of two moves I definitely didn't like: S15/T14 and maybe B10.

If I had protected J12, I would have felt a lot more comfortable... I don't know if the way I played was "correct" outside of these two moves, but that's my general thinking.**)]
;B[jh]BL[403.362]C[Hmm. Hane on either side just makes him stronger. Keep him not strong, and just help H11. I can't lose H11, so maybe H10.

(**Post-game thinking: Maybe it's even OK to lose H11. I dunno. **)]
;W[hj]WL[267.062]
;B[ji]BL[398.852]C[Just keep strengthening.]
;W[hl]WL[264.255]
;B[gk]BL[396.253]
;W[hk]WL[260.222]
;B[mh]BL[391.818]C[Hmm. Maybe I can cut him and kill something.

(**Post-game thinking: No... I should protect H8 first. This is a terrible idea when H8 is not strong. I should have strengthened H8 first with maybe H6 or possibly with L8 or something of that nature. Maybe L9.

Anyway, something to make it stronger.

Then after that, I should come back to attack if he hasn't done anything about it.

First I should have protected myself.]
;W[fk]WL[250.481]
;B[gj]BL[386.389]
;W[gl]WL[248.242]
;B[ek]BL[384.228]
;W[ej]WL[246.573]
;B[fl]BL[380.36]
;W[fj]WL[244.953]
;B[fe]BL[367.848]
;W[dm]WL[216.645]C[(**Post-game thinking: Still a bad idea. I should help H8 first.**)]
;B[ck]BL[363.885]
;W[ao]WL[209.226]
;B[fn]BL[358.704]
;W[do]WL[204.989]C[(**Post-game thinking: Seems risky, still...**)]
;B[cj]BL[351.876]
;W[ci]WL[203.344]
;B[bk]BL[347.928]
;W[bi]WL[201.826]
;B[gm]BL[324.378]
;W[hm]WL[183.521]
;B[hn]BL[322.077]
;W[em]WL[181.675]
;B[fm]BL[319.536]
;W[in]WL[179.633]
;B[ho]BL[318.152]
;W[io]WL[167.927]
;B[go]BL[302.332]
;W[fo]WL[165.852]
;B[fp]BL[299.031]
;W[eo]WL[163.176]
;B[an]BL[293.987]
;W[ap]WL[158.745]
;B[bo]BL[291.704]
;W[bm]WL[150.884]
;B[cm]BL[288.908]
;W[ap]WL[146.057]
;B[im]BL[286.686]C[Uh oh.]
;W[jm]WL[111.789]
;B[ip]BL[274.434]C[Oh no...]
;W[gq]WL[84.519]
;B[jn]BL[262.831]C[What?

(**Post game thinking: I think this was a mistake by him. He could have ran at J8 to make two weaknesses: J6 and H7. I think this was his mistake, and cost him his life.**)]
;W[il]WL[80.091]
;B[jo]BL[260.346]
;W[im]WL[76.494]
;B[km]BL[258.766]
;W[kl]WL[74.624]
;B[ll]BL[257.139]
;W[lm]WL[72.906]
;B[kn]BL[255.154]
;W[lk]WL[67.646]
;B[ml]BL[253.621]C[N5 area is kind of big... Oh well, if I kill him maybe it's OK.]
;W[kk]WL[63.419]
;B[mk]BL[251.08]
;W[mj]WL[61.358]
;B[lj]BL[249.012]
;W[li]WL[47.25]
;B[kj]BL[247.159]
;W[jj]WL[45.152]
;B[nj]BL[240.029]
;W[ki]WL[41.836]C[He resigned.])

I didn't like H11 either. It seems to drive black into the area where white wants to make points. I don't see a good attacking move to play right away, as black has good center access, an eye on the side, and potential for one around G12 or so. I would probably just play a move on the left side to profit and see if black neglects his group too much later on. If black tries to invade the left side right away, he may cause that group problems once white is strengthened. White's top left group is also fairly thick already, so white might be able to just play a move to strengthen the right side group and let black try to figure out where to go from there.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:56 pm**

So my company gives out these cards - they're called "ORCA" cards. Basically, they let you ride public transportation for free. I've been meaning to save on gas and ride the bus to work, so today I did. I brought along my iPad, on which I have a few PDFs containing various go problems. I've been telling myself I only have time for games, but I couldn't resist ez4u's advice that it's time for me to study more go problems. And what better opportunity than on the way to work?

So equipped with my trusty iPad, I walked to the bus stop today, and rode the bus to work. I solved several go problems, and I felt great at work. It was a great way to make my mind wake up. Correspondingly, when I left to go home, I also rode the bus, so I did the same on the way home. I was mentally tired from work, but I still solved a good number of problems. I'd say that each problem takes me about a minute to solve, unless I remember the shape, in which case, I remember the problem...

And the result? Today, I have a game to show, which I am utterly ashamed to post. Despite having done go problems during my commute to and from work - something I've done for the first time in awhile - I ~~couldn't~~ didn't(?) read at all today. Certainly, there are other games that I've posted here in which I did not read well. But I am sincerely embarrassed of this one.

But alas, I've decided to play games and post them here when I have. I won't hide this embarrassing game. I only feel sorry to those that feel inclined to observe it, as it is filled with poor play!

But maybe I'll try to commute by bus again tomorrow. Maybe if I keep playing each day, doing go problems here and there, maybe, just maybe, I can get better than the 1d/1k that I've been for years.

Then again, maybe not. But at least I'll have fun trying. :-)

P.S. I did NOT play calmly.

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:58 am**

Kirby wrote:But maybe I'll try to commute by bus again tomorrow.

I really look forward to train journeys I make; they're excellent opportunities to do things like tsumego (or learning vocabulary, or...) which I often just feel I don't have time to do at home. Train journeys are time I can't spend doing anything else.

Speaking of not having time: this thread looks interesting. I'll try to make time to read it and look at the games...

Posted: **Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:12 am**

I use the public system to watch a lot of go while commuting. It's fun and the time goes after.

I probably should do tsumego as well, but it's not quite as fun.

Life In 19x19

Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Re: Kirby's Study Journal