Life In 19x19

Posted: **Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:10 am**

oca wrote:On move 28 "Do you see the connect-and-die problems for W at (a) ?"
Well... not sur I really see it...
$$W
$$ | . . . . X . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X X O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | O X O O O 1 . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ | . . . . X . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X X X X X O . X . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | O X O O O 1 . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Hi oca, you're over-thinking.

All I meant was if B takes the ko with

, W cannot connect at (b) --
which also happened in your game: your move

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | X X X X X O . X . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | O X O O O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 1 O b O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:54 pm**

EdLee wrote:
Bantari wrote:I think there is a misunderstanding here.
In my opinion, the source of irritation is not that White makes the best possible moves, but that he does not!
Interesting. May I ask how you came to this opinion ? It's possible I had not read all of Ember's texts so far and I missed something.

By talking to other players taking high handicap and by playing them.
Also by observing what play gets them annoyed and angry and what does not.

I really suck and high handi games as White, so when I play such games I try all kinds of different things, just to stay above water. Some of them might be honest best moves I can make, some of them might be tricky moves, some of them might be overly tricky moves and huge overplays. I never have had anybody getting upset after they lost honestly against good moves, even when they lost big. I often got people upset after they play against trickery and huge overplays, even when they win.

From what Bill said, other players feel the same, slighted even if they win. Sometimes it might not be rational, but there it is anyways.

Thus - my conclusion. I think players can sense such things, maybe subconsciously, its the flow of the game.

However the particular situation of the OP might be, I think my statements are general enough to be applicable, so I brought it up.

Posted: **Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:51 pm**

Bantari wrote:However the particular situation of the OP might be,

Ah. I was talking about Ember's irritation specifically in that one tourney game, not in general.
Mis-communications.

Posted: **Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:05 pm**

@ EdLee: Bantari nailed it. I didn't mean to say anything at all against good moves, be they aggressive or not, but against constantly trying to trick your oponent and looking forward to kill as much in that way as you can instead of having a real plan like closing one group in and using that strength you get there to attack another black group - like you would play in a game against someone of your own strength. See this quote from post #19 here:

Ember wrote: I didn't want to say anything against attacking moves where you have a plan like closing in in sente, splitting your opponent or the like - this is the game and what makes it interesting! However, what I for my part dislike is only attacking without really having a plan apart from "Killkillkill!!" and just hacking away at someone with unreasonable moves that actually cannot possibly work. If your only plan is "I'll try to kill the group by playing there - although I know it won't work if he answers correctly. If it won't die it's not a problem, there are three more corners I can try, someting is bound to die". I think this is especially true when you're already past that point where you have more than caught up with your opponent and are already leading. That's what I originally meant with "Know where to stop", you don't have to go all out at this point anymore. Keeping sente and getting (most of) the big endgames usually is usually enough to wrap up the game. Of course, if in the game suddenly a chance arrises for you to kill a group and finish the game - finish the game. But harrassing someone like I just explained in this paragraph in my opinion is bad style and not very helpful for either player (in the sense of learning something).

Posted: **Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:34 am**

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near" Sun Tzu The Art of War

I don't get why trick moves getting you upset but i would avoid playing handicap games since they dull your play.

Posted: **Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:59 am**

Hi Ember,

Ember wrote:I didn't mean to say anything at all against good moves, be they aggressive or not, but against constantly trying to trick your oponent and looking forward to kill as much in that way as you can instead of having a real pla

I would try to not consider handicap games (especially with 4+ stones) as real competitive games but rather as teaching games with high learning opportunities. This attitude could help to be more indifferent to the actual game score (which is anyway not very meaningful in high handicap games IMHO) and rather focus on the game contents.

Thus, if your opponent uses many trick plays, you can analyze them afterwards - maybe together with stronger players - and try to find the best refutations. That could be of much help in similar situations in future games.

If your opponent plays strong, solid moves, the learning opportunity could be rather focused on your direction of play (or why you missed the biggest / most urgent points) or on bad shapes etc.

That's just my 2 ct...

Posted: **Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:05 pm**

EdLee wrote:
Bantari wrote:However the particular situation of the OP might be,
Ah. I was talking about Ember's irritation specifically in that one tourney game, not in general.
Mis-communications.

Yeah, sorry. It is probably my fault for not reading properly. I skimmed through the thread and these were the thoughts that popped into my head. It is hard for me to understand somebody getting upset that their opponent gives his or her best, so I most likely just blanked this part out.

Life In 19x19

How to play as white in handicap games?

Re:

Re: How to play as white in handicap games?

Re: How to play as white in handicap games?

Re: How to play as white in handicap games?

Re: