Life In 19x19

Posted: **Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:20 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm68 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a X O . . . . 5 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O 3 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X 4 , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

W has to do something to stop the cut at G12 (the cut above seems less important, since sacrificing those two stones helps). Either white can connect directly, or try to get it in sente, possibly by pushing again like this. If white pushes again, I expect something to finally attain stability, like grabbing eyespace with an extension or maybe cutting at 'a'.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:51 am**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:18 am**

dfan wrote:
$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now, why didn't I think of that?

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:23 am**

Wowzers, this is ugly by black... White is solidified quite a lot. Maybe this now? I also considered black 'a' but white has solidified so much that I'm becoming afraid of the invasion at 71 :shock. After this 'a' black is probably behind in points, but white's group is still under some pressure, so he probably has to spend another move defending it and then maybe black 'b' or 'c' could make the game close again?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . a . 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . c . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:56 am**

H12 is dual sente and big.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O 2 . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:58 am**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:H12 is dual sente and big.

Oh duh, I saw that it was huge, but somehow missed the threat that makes it so sente. Yeah, definitely expecting this, now.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:03 am**

71 is solid but it is giving white point 'a' that is too ideal.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . a . 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

for that reason i will play at 71 if i had to play there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . 2 . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

going high is also an option

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , 2 . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

71 below is slow but it is well worth one move and i like this move.
i think this is the best move i can comeup with.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70ACTUAL GAME: Move 70. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 2 . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:07 am**

Magicwand wrote:71 is solid but it is giving white point 'a' that is too ideal.

Is that really so? While thinking about this position, the three-point extension was actually the one that I discarded first... It leaves behind a glaring invasion point which you'll probably have to defend at some point, and white still has a good shape point left at this 'a' (not that he'd necessarily have to play there immediately). I personally like 'c', but if I would want to put more pressure on white, I would play 'b' instead, as that doesn't give white any good shape point. I might be wrong, but to me, your move feels a bit like an "in-between" move that only half accomplishes two goals...

'd' also feels good; even though I would personally be afraid that it's just a notch too slow, it might very well be the best move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . a b 2 c . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . d . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:22 am**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:H12 is dual sente and big.

It's double sente for sure. So the question is whether this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O # . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is really better for black than this (71 added for reference and because I like it):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm70 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O @ a . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X # , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I slightly prefer the second diagramme for black, so I would not feel the need to make this exchange now. It's subtle though...

EDIT: looking at it again, the black hane at 'a' might even be better than this

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:03 am**

gaius wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:H12 is dual sente and big.

It's double sente for sure. So the question is whether this:
$$Wcm70 My prediction
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . 2 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O O # . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . @ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O # . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is really better for black than this (71 added for reference and because I like it):
$$Wcm70 My prediction
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . 2 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O O @ a . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X # , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 My prediction $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . 2 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O @ a . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X # , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I slightly prefer the second diagramme for black, so I would not feel the need to make this exchange now. It's subtle though...

EDIT: looking at it again, the black hane at 'a' might even be better than this

your first diagram only helps white.
your second diagram only helps black.

in my opinion both move sucks. let's observe who will play sucky move first

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:21 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 ACTUAL GAME: Move 71. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 1 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:15 pm**

dfan wrote: ACTUAL GAME: Move 71.

that seemed unexpected

edit: though there was some earlier discussion of that move between moves 35-40ish.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:20 pm**

To figure out why black played that, I think Gaius has the right direction.

gaius wrote:'d' also feels good; even though I would personally be afraid that it's just a notch too slow, it might very well be the best move.
$$Wcm70
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . d . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . d . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X . O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think that Gaius is right: it is a good move and it is too slow.

Note that white probably has to respond, else black will play like this, in sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm73 82 @ 75 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . 8 7 9 X . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O 3 O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O 4 X 1 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X 5 . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . 6 2 . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So white will respond like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 2 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and while black gets a good grip on the center, it is aji keshi: it forces white to become strong.

So black adds one more to the sacrifice stones, keeping the aji of the isolated white stones, knowing that sooner or later white will have to fill some of his own territory to kill the black stones.

Now white does not have an easy answer.

If he tries to answer by eliminating the problem at 'a', he dies.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O a O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O 2 X 1 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . 3 . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He can play solid but passive, and black gets 73, with all the bad aji at 'a' in the offing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm71 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O a O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X 1 O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . 2 . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

BTW, this last diagram is my prediction.

Posted: **Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:20 pm**

Nice analysis, Joaz.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm72 ACTUAL GAME: Move 72. Points from prisoners: B 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . 1 . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:28 am**

Metagame analysis: If Joaz had correctly guessed a few moves in a row, I think Dfan would have shown them all. So I'm guessing the next move is wrong.

Life In 19x19

Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game

Re: Prokovich game