Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 22 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:21 am
by Gresil
Actually, :b3: in my continuation may be O12, or something else, and keep the wedge for later. I'll look at it closer after the next move.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:07 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I do hope that Daniel approves this. There are so many interesting possibilities once we become stronger with J12.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . 9 X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 1 2 8 W B X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 5 6 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X 4 X 7 . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X 6 X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . 5 . O . . X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 1 2 . W B X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X 7 X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O 8 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


These are just examples. I haven't read out all of them, but the aji is great for us.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:54 am
by daniel_the_smith
Approved...

...grudgingly. It gives white the option to sack his tail like this. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I don't think I would play this way, but it might be OK, esp. if we do something worthwhile with our sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 77A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . 0 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 9 8 X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X a O 7 6 4 X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 2 1 X 5 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:38 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Now the reading begins.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:42 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 78A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . W X X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sometimes, simplest really is best. We could try to do something trickier, but most things that try to connect in sente seem to either not work, or force black to strengthen themselves, which isn't worth the cost. Let's stick to the simple, safe, and correct.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:07 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve.

The last three moves strengthened two of our groups and only slightly improved black's iffy connection.
That black group in the middle is looking like swiss cheese.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:44 am
by shapenaji
Approved
Simple is best, overcomplicated defenses, while sometimes correct, are more often just inflexible... Playing a simple defense often offers the most chances to counterattack.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:41 am
by Gresil
Sorry it's taking so long. I had just about the busiest work week of my life this week.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 78A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X B . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I think this is the right way to proceed. The top right white group is a bit cramped there but I'll have my head out in the open.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 78A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:52 am
by daniel_the_smith
Approved.

This seems reasonable.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:55 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:36 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 80A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O W O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, so my first, second, and third thought was P14. However, while that is the only other move that seems to defend both cutting points adequately, it has downsides. In exchange for defending SLIGHTLY more eyespace around O14 if we also later block at P15 in gote, black could almost seal our group in from the bottom in sente, with peeps and such. This gives us much better access to the bottom (which also preserves more threat against the black group), so I choose it.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:38 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:30 pm
by shapenaji
Not Approved

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 80A W35 B 40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . W X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the best time to take this, we want to force them to a choice right now, and then decide how to proceed on the right

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 80A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X 4 O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 3 2 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . 1 X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . 5 X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OR

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 80A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 3 . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 2 1 X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 5 O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OR
EDIT: Missed the obvious move in this last one :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 80A W35 B 36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 2 a . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 3 1 X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . b . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a and b are miai

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:39 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 80A W35 B 40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . 2 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 6 1 X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 4 3 5 X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X 7 X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . 9 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Could he be aiming at something like this? I'll have to look at the current board position further to try to cipher the game plan...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:14 am
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 81A W35 B 40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I'd been thinking this is going too well for black...

Can I save the top black group in sente?

First, it lives on its own if J19 is, as I suppose, forcing:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 81A W35 B 40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . 4 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With :b3: black has two eyes guaranteed, I'm quite confident. But does it force :w4:? If it does, fab: I can tenuki to rescue the center group. But if it doesn't, I might as well do this:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 81A W35 B 40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . 1 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 3 O X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X 5 O 4 2 . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . g o t e . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But the first option at least has a chance of being sente, is more interesting and is also, I expect, less damaging to my four-wind-sheeted center grouplet.
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