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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:29 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Explosion in...

3


2


1

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:29 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:38 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 86A W37 B 42
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X W X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, I do this for two reasons. First, separating opponent groups should help us in this fight, though it's scary to let black weaken a top a little like they have (and may get to again). Secondly, from the metagaming standpoint, I don't think my teammates would have let me push unless we intended to cut, as it would be major aji-keshi.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:49 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve. It is the only move.


But the previous move is fodder for serious post-mortem analysis.
Violence wrote:Approved.


I was sure that V would change this. I thought that M12 was better for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 85
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O 4 O X O O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O 3 2 O X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X 1 X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:42 am
by daniel_the_smith
Joaz: your way leaves us with a piano, our way merely a bowling ball. Either way it's not fun to get one dropped on you but one might not be fatal.

Plus our way gives us options. Our next move will be at L11, giving white the choice of where to be cut in two.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:53 am
by Joaz Banbeck
daniel_the_smith wrote:Joaz: your way leaves us with a piano, our way merely a bowling ball. Either way it's not fun to get one dropped on you but one might not be fatal...


But you can duck the piano completely by abandoning the four H17 stones. The piano squashes them, and you take most the northeast quarter of the board.
When the dust settles, there are no undecided life and death issues. Black's territory is cash in the bank, whereas white's potential is yet to be realized.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:09 am
by shapenaji
Approved

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:10 am
by daniel_the_smith
Oh, you think white would die up there? :mrgreen:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:20 pm
by Violence
Hm? I'm sorry, you think we're in some sort of danger?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:44 pm
by shapenaji
Violence wrote:Hm? I'm sorry, you think we're in some sort of danger?


... yes :twisted:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:46 pm
by Marcus
I know I've commented before about this game, but I have to say it again: This is AWESOME. Thanks for taking the time to do this, folks.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:30 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
daniel_the_smith wrote:Oh, you think white would die up there? :mrgreen:


Starting from the position of the last diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 0 . . . 6 7 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 4 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O 3 5 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 8 9 . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O O X O O 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O X O O X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...it looks bad for white.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:44 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Well, I don't think you're obligated to play :w1: there, you could... you know, help the endangered group... :scratch:

Anyway, back to the game... Gresil? Your move I think?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:17 pm
by Chew Terr
For Gresil:
I'm glad THEY know what they're doing enough to talk trash! Are you feeling like you're having as hard time treading water as I am? :tmbup:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:22 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
daniel_the_smith wrote:Well, I don't think you're obligated to play :w1: there, you could... you know, help the endangered group... :scratch:
...



So it would seem. But after some long analysis, I come to the conclusion that M16 is the vital point, and when black gets there first, helping the endangered group is tricky.

O14 is such a weak spot that it cannot be covered indirectly:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O 1 . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 8 6 7 X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O O X O O 4 5 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O X O O X O 3 O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...white must play :w3: like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O 1 . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X O 0 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O O X O O . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O X O O X O 5 O 7 9 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X X X X 4 6 8 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X X . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O O X O O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O X O O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X X X X X X X 2 3 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , 4 5 . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 8 9 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 1 O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . a 2 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X X . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O O . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . . b X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O O X O O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O X O O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X X X X X X X X O |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O . O . . . , X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this position, black can take territory with :b2:, and white cannot reply with 'a', because of the weakness at 'b'. White has two weak groups, black has one. H17 still holds.

These diagrams don't cover everything, but they illustate the general idea that white still has two weak groups that will be a burden, so it may be better to grab H17 when possible.
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