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115 - robinz v. 1986

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3740

Page 26 of 31

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:10 am
by EdLee
robinz wrote:I doubt that many Malkovich games have reached 200
Yes, congrats. :)

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:13 am
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm206 Prsioner Count :w29: :b12:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X . O X X X X X . X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O . X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | 1 . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


he still wants to take liberties oh well, back to the action later, maybe he is looking to profit from a ko fight he has a few good threats

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:51 am
by robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm207 Prsioner Count :w29: :b12:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X . O X X X X X . X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O . X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


As previously discussed, I might as well get this move in. I hope he responds, of course - but if he doesn't then I can at least effect a fairly major reduction of his territory.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:40 am
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm208 Prisoner Count :w29: :b12:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . 1 O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X . O X X X X X . X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O . X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i never would have thought of that move its even better than e18, wow that was a beautiful hand, i dont think its sente though so its my turn! my move im continuing to focus on ripping into the center, i still have my corners and plenty of fight left so :rambo:

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:23 pm
by robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm209 Prisoner Count :w30: :b12:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X . O X X X X X . X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O . X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | . 1 O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Once again, I find myself surprised. As far as I can tell, the sensible options for white were to either capture my group in the lower-left, or respond to my ko threat (presumably trying to still win the ko later but at less cost). Instead, he seems to have responded with a ko threat of his own - which is strange as I haven't just taken the ko :scratch:

So I'm going to respond by doing the obvious and taking the ko myself. I can now actually win the semeai in the lower left, although it will mean ignoring a ko threat of white's. Letting white get J7 in, saving his stone, is undoubtedly a fairly major loss, but a lot less so than losing the capturing race. I'm almost certainly still behind, but surely this was a major mistake from white, and I feel I may have a realistic chance in this game again.

Although I'll doubtless wonder why I said that in a few moves time...

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:19 am
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm210 Prsioner Count :w30: :b12:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X . O X X X X X 1 X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O . X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


he looks like he is going for the kill on those five stones around a6, im continuing gain influence in the center, hopefully he plays another move in the corner so i can contiune to compensate elsewhere, as far as ko threats i have g19 but i will hurt me more than help me because black has a few more threasts

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:34 am
by robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm211 Prsioner Count :w30: :b12:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X 1 O X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O . X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Right, so I win the capturing race, and with unexpected ease :D Of course, in doing so I had to give up quite a lot of points in the lower-central region (perhaps I can rescue something here, although I'm not sure - it's something I need to read in more details), and my opponent now has sente too. OTOH, I did get G18 in, and will get at least one nice followup from that. I'm definitely behind, but I feel like I'm right back in the game now - and am certain 1986 could have done a lot better had he just played out the ko in the usual fashion. But what do I know? ;-)

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:18 am
by 1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm212 Prsioner Count :w30: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . X O X . . O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X X O O X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . O . O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X O X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | O O O 2 X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X O X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . . O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | 1 . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i didn't remove the captured stones around a6 just in case u dont accept this trigger lol :)

im still even on the score lets see if i keep it this way

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:35 am
by robinz
Rest assured that I accept the trigger :D I need a bit longer to decide on my next move though.

:w14: looks logical enough, but I'm very surprised he put the 12/13 exchange in first - surely that's no more than a wasted ko threat?

Anyway, now I guess I need to figure out where I should play next...

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:03 pm
by robinz
Apologies - I don't think I'll be making a move tonight.


Despite what I said about 1986's plays being more generous to me than they might have been - which I still believe is true - now I see the position which has resulted I'm actually seriously considering resignation at this point. Those "quite a lot of points" I just lost around J6 are actually pretty enormous - white has the entire lower portion of the board (something I went out of my way to avoid earlier in the game, and had succeeded in until being forced to play a serious of unfavourable kos). I'm think I'm around 20 points behind, if not more, and don't see any way back from here unless I can somehow bring some of those stones back to life. And I don't see how that's possible - there clearly isn't remotely enough space to live independently (even one eye would be something of an achievement...), and all of his stones look well-enough connected to obviously living ones that I don't see how to capture any either. I don't think white has to do anything more now than to just keep H5 alive.

Still, I'm going to sleep on it, and perhaps see if I can see anything tomorrow.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:35 pm
by Redundant
@Robinz:

I'm much too lazy to count this, but I hope you'll do (and post!) a precise count before resigning.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:08 am
by emeraldemon
By my rough count white's ahead by about 6 points. I think it's too close to resign just yet, especially at this skill level.

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:13 am
by topazg
emeraldemon wrote:
By my rough count white's ahead by about 6 points. I think it's too close to resign just yet, especially at this skill level.


Really? By mine, with komi, it's more like 20.. are you sure?

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:22 am
by emeraldemon
topazg wrote:
Really? By mine, with komi, it's more like 20.. are you sure?


OK, trying again, more carefully...
White:
Upper Left: 25
Upper Right: 6
Bottom: 48 (ish?)
komi: 6.5
total = 85.5

Black:
Prisoner diff: 17
Left: 15 ?
Top: 8
Right: 25
total = 65

:oops: Not sure where I hallucinated before, possibly didn't carry a 10 when adding somewhere...

Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:29 am
by topazg
emeraldemon wrote:
:oops: Not sure where I hallucinated before, possibly didn't carry a 10 when adding somewhere...


Easily done :) I normally do that in my own games sadly :P
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