Life In 19x19

Life in 19x19. Go, Weiqi, Baduk... Thats the life.
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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 29 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:51 am
by Violence
Observers
After some deliberation... I think we win this game.

There is no way to capture our stones.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:08 am
by topazg
schilds wrote:To topazg:
White p18 instead of o18?
My first response would be this, but maybe Black can White can afford a different :w8: to go after Black's top group. Certainly P18 feels a bit better to me than Joaz' suggestion.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . 6 7 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O 9 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 8 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 0 . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 3 O X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 1 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 2 X C X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:14 am
by crux
Observers only.
Joaz Banbeck wrote:It continues like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 5 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 4 2 . X C 7 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X a . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 6 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 9 0 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 8 . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...and black has two liberties while all the surrounding groups have 3+ liberties. Black dies in a ladder or a crane's nest.
So, given that liberties are important, why not 7 at a? Or even (6 at 1)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 3 2 . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 4 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . 7 , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:57 am
by Magicwand
strictly for observers only
many people including elders are missing some simple retaliation by black and drawing this picture.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Second variation on move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 3 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 8 1 4 6 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . 9 , 5 7 . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
if black answer marked stone as below then this picture will not work and have to use net.
which will result in 3 liberty. this will make this one way street and whole lot easier to read next variaton. :)

am i mission something???
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Second variation on move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X B . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 3 8 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 1 4 6 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , 5 7 . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
edit:
disregard everything i said above..
i must be really tired not to see what is wrong with my argument!

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:53 am
by daniel_the_smith
Observers only: (well I guess Violence, too)
I got nothin' but I didn't want to get left out on the trend... ;)

Well, ok. I foresee one of these two outcomes:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 98B W46 B50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . 3 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . 2 W . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X 1 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 98B W46 B50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 1 W . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not quite sure which is better for us, either way white is looking a little dead all over the top right...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:11 am
by Shaddy
topazg wrote:EDIT: Restructure as was getting long and messy

To Shaddy and observers:
In your last diagram, I still read White ahead, as follows:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 6 . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O X 1 4 . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 5 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 7 . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Is there something that doesn't work about this for White?
My alternative idea
However, I quite like this:

Line A
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 9 5 8 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 7 O 3 6 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Line B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 6 5 8 . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 7 O 3 9 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc a and b are miai?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . b O 4 . a 1 O 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Line C
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 9 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 7 6 O 3 8 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White looks a liberty behind in all of these... for example, on the first one:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X X O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O 3 O 4 . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 1 . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . X X O . 6 . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O 3 O 1 4 . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 5 . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Can White resist this ?
Full sequence from current position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 7 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 4 2 . X O 9 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O 1 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 8 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 0 . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 4 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X 2 O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Obs.
Your sequence is a transposition of mine. Black will o19 instead of 2.

Edit. In fact, I believe your sequence doesn't work,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc a and b are miai?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . b O 4 . a 1 O 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White will fill a liberty on the black group here and sacrifice the top group.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:27 am
by topazg
Yeah, transposition is kinda obvious - whoops!

I'm not sure if capturing the White top left group can be classified as a failure. To begin with, the whole top right apart from the corner was sort of "running fight dame" ish, so losing a 25 point group and having the top right as dame is kind of painful for White, no?

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:48 am
by Shaddy
If white loses that top left group and captures black's stones, then the right side is huge and he's ahead. Black doesn't have a ton of territory.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:39 pm
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 99A W46 B50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X B X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is an interesting opportunity to practice evaluation: I interpret our last move to have been made with one of the following two continuations in mind, but which one?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc b5 connects
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . . O 4 X W 3 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X 1 X X 2 . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 6 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . 7 , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc w4 connects
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 1 O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can't read either continuation further than that. In the first option white's Q13 group is left weak, which benefits our P12 group, but there is a kyu-resistant fog of war in the top. In the second our top group seems to gain an iota of security but the Q13 group gains precious liberties relative to the P12 group, rendering the latter very 'eavy, very 'eak.

I'll just go with the crazier option.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:06 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Approved.
...Although in Gresil's diagram, :w2: - :b5: are both bad exchanges for white and won't be played. (see the diagram in my last post for my expected continuation)

I'm not sure which of the two possible moves is better. I considered changing this just in case Violence wants the other one (since he can change my change cheaper than he can change Gresil's original move), but mathematically me doing nothing is slightly better. On average me doing nothing loses 2 points, but me changing it loses 2.5 points.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:12 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:14 pm
by Gresil
Whoa, blitz.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:21 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:28 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 100A W46 B50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . W O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Okay, the last move chosen by my team emphasizes saving these stones, which I had intended to sacrifice. If we don't connect them now, the stones are sacrificed without compensation. So, we connect here, and try to live above, I think? Sorry, I'm feeling very lost and out of my depth in this game.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:14 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I approve.
Chew Terr wrote:
...I'm feeling very lost and out of my depth in this game.
Me too.
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