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Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:53 pm
by Magicwand
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
there is reason why i played this now.
below is what i expect.
if i play 22 later there is no guarantee that he will answer it.
but now he is forced to. kinda suttle but make sense.
after sequence below..22 and 23 exchange is good for me.
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 i will explain after i get home.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:08 pm
by topazg
Cute magicwand, very cute!
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Hmmm, that's a useful move for White. Presumably now he defends the corner. However, he's also given me a slight helping hand there, there is a bit of aji keshi in that move. Before, I didn't really want to make the second two point jump on the left, because of the bad splitting aji:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0However, he's just fixed that for me. Which means now, if he tenukis, I don't want the 3-3:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0The only tenuki that makes sense is in the top right, so my
will go whever his doesn't. But, this way I get a good left side, enlarge my moyo in sente, and then get to respond to his tenuki. I suspect he will therefore play in the lower left, and the 3-3 is the only move that makes sense now he's made me stronger on the left side. In which case, I will still want to play my
above, but it's a bit less urgent I think, as I can't guarantee sente.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:12 pm
by Bill Spight
topazg wrote: $$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0So, continuing into the corner as planned. I suspect he will make a two point jump out, and I will take the corner:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0If he blocks, I will take the top right while it is still huge:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Seems to me that the top right is bigger than the bottom left corner if White extends on the left side.
Magicwand wrote: $$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0there is reason why i played this now.
below is what i expect.
if i play 22 later there is no guarantee that he will answer it.
but now he is forced to. kinda suttle but make sense.
after sequence below..22 and 23 exchange is good for me.
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 i will explain after i get home.
I look forward to your explanation, because I do not see much value in strengthening the opponent's stones before approaching them.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:57 pm
by Jedo
Topazg spoke about a way to weaken the corner invasion but couldn't find a version he liked. What about this?
$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:40 pm
by Shaddy
Magicwand wrote: $$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
there is reason why i played this now.
below is what i expect.
if i play 22 later there is no guarantee that he will answer it.
but now he is forced to. kinda suttle but make sense.
after sequence below..22 and 23 exchange is good for me.
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 i will explain after i get home.
I definitely don't understand this 2. I as white would rather omit that exchange and aim at the
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$ ---------------------------------------a-b-c aji there.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm
by Magicwand
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
if i didnt exchange then this would be the logical continuation.
if i peep then he would answer b instead of a.
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0after the following my sequence i will have one of two big point a or b.
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0i saw similar play on recent professional game and it make sense so wanted to try it on my game.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:37 pm
by Kirby
Does this game have komi?
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:46 pm
by Magicwand
Kirby wrote: Does this game have komi?
good question. i never asked him.
personally it doesnt matter either way.
i dont plan to win on komi.
topazg:
i am fine with play white and no komi. if tie i win.
is this fine with you? or do you want to play even with komi?
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:10 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0I was envisaging even with komi
Ok, let's see if I'm right with this. If White takes the 3-3, I hop to jump out in sente, and then take the last top right point:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0I think it's probably then a good time to make some kind of count.
I don't really have much choice about where
goes here. Taking the 3-3 seems to give him perfect escaping shape now:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0White will always win the center influence war now.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:14 pm
by topazg
Further thoughts:
Aji I'm thinking about at the top:
$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:40 pm
by Magicwand
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0edit:
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:19 am
by topazg
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:49 am
by entropi
Question to topazg:
A question that very often puzzles me in my games. I use the opportunity to ask it here. If the answer is too complicated, please don't go into too much detail. I don't want to bother you too much with past moves and unplayed variations.
Here it is:
topazg wrote: I suspect he will make a two point jump out, and I will take the corner:
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Why do you think white would choose 2 over taking the corner here? Is it bigger, safer, keeps sente, or ... ???
After 3, it looks reasonable for white to tenuki (maybe taking a big point in top right) but also if white takes the corner with 2, he still has the sente.
Another reason for chosing 2 could be irritating the black group just above it. But this is also not likely because that black group seems quite strong.
So I guess there is another difference between 2 and 3, but I cannot figure it out. Maybe just the size? If so how many points roughly?
Thanks in advance for your answer.
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:11 am
by Magicwand
$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
i have a feeling his move is slacking giving me toomuch room for my tesuji.
what i want is another sente to solidify top moyo.
after sente sequence i will either go a or b. (yet to make up my mind)
$$Wcm28 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm28 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 93: magicwand (4d) vs topazg (1d)
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:39 am
by topazg
Well, that was unexpected!! So, how badly do I want sente:
$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0Actually, I want sente quite a lot. My gain here is minimal, considering I lose central influence to boot, and with my sente sequence I'm still alive in the top left.
I wonder about the following:
$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 If "a" kills, I need to live in the top left, which isn't entirely clear. If I kill and live, I gain 35 points or something crazy in this exchange, and have a good chance of winning. Some thought is required.
Also, I've changed my mind about the tesuji at the top. Reducing is more sensible - I haven't decided whether it's bigger than the top right either now. I've been disliking how flat my position is - it's one of those "points that no-one really wants that much" unless my corner is destabilised by White playing there.:
$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
will go whever his doesn't. But, this way I get a good left side, enlarge my moyo in sente, and then get to respond to his tenuki. I suspect he will therefore play in the lower left, and the 3-3 is the only move that makes sense now he's made me stronger on the left side. In which case, I will still want to play my 
above, but it's a bit less urgent I think, as I can't guarantee sente.
at 