Life In 19x19

I could never bring myself to play the low move here. The sanrensei just feels correct

I could never bring myself to play sanrensei. The low move just feels more balanced.

When I see the low move, I think 'wishy washy coward'

Disclaimer: not that I think anyone is a coward :p

I expected something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . O . . a . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can't ignore because it supports an invasion and I must respond with something like , then looks like it works well with the corner.

Now that he has played D10, he can't miss G3 a second time. So I'm going to take it myself. ( well, F3 actually )

BTW, there was a possibility of playing F4. If he had played a full sanrensai, I might have regarded my lower side as more important than the corner, and gone for the joseki like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 5 . . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...where 'a' is a good invasion.

But with the marked stone low, it and work too well together.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 5 . . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and now something like 'a' looks risky.

So I will make the approach low. I'm expecting something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...where I think that I can tenuki to the left, though the ghost of Kageyama is screaming at me to play the honest move at 'b'.

Okay, that's not too surprising. I'm wondering if the weakness created by K3 was enough that I should have taken the move I considered last time. However, I'm not too bothered by this sequence, Though it'd be obnoxious if W jumps into my corner here, at least I'm high low high on the left side, which works well enough. Additionally, W's flattness on bottom makes me feel better about my flat stones on the right side. =)

Aggrrr! I can't believe that I was seriously considering the slide at 'a' for my next move. It is completely incompatible with the rest of my stones on the lower side. Everything else down there is looking like a moyo, and the slide is a settling move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . c d . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . b . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Besides that, once I am strong enough in the lower middle, I want to take 'b' myself. If he tries to prevent it all by taking 'a', I'll cash in my aji on the right with the 'c'/'d' exchange, and then play 'e'.

With K3 low, Joaz has no moyo.

About Chew's 3rd line , just for reference:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . @ . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . Y , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

SmartGo returns 4 pro games out of 50,744 with the above opening (orientation independant, of course)
in 1993, 1995, 2000, and 2009; and two more pro games if was at the 3-4 at (b).
As always, we don't know what the pros were thinking,
maybe they were only experimenting with this low formation, and we don't know their conclusions, either.
In any case, it's still quite early in Chew's game, and for this level of play--I can only speak for myself, at my level--
3rd or 4th line at this stage does not matter so much and does not decide the game by any means.
(Perhaps this is also applicable to W's low at (a).)
In fact, at in Chew's game, it was not a moyo game, it was a territory game,
so perhaps the low was better than high.

I definitely prefer high on the left.

Yeah, I know it's played, and I'd certainly not call it bad - I was just curious as to what the justification for the decision was

topazg wrote:With K3 low, Joaz has no moyo.

You beat me to it. What moyo is he talking about, with three 3rd line stones?

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . c d . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . c d . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he tries to prevent it all by taking 'a', I'll cash in my aji on the right with the 'c'/'d' exchange, and then play 'e'.

Is that a good strategy? It doesn't look too good for W:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

nomoyobunch wrote:... no moyo ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

k3 being low does give black ways to reduce the moyo but white framework is working well together.

Okay, so... in response to my opponent's last move, I can prioritize either the corner or the side. If I tenuki, W gets to choose, and that's no fun. The corner is large, and an invasion would hurt. However, this goes a fair way to ensure that W will never make TOO many points down below, while enlarging my framework quite a bit. W may well invade the corner in response, in which case, if something like this happened:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 0 O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 9 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This just seems too good for B. It's probably not quite the joseki, but similar enough to convey the idea. As such, if the corner invasion doesn't scare me, then playing the outside. On the other hand, if he plays along:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I feel like I can play along with this all day long. =) In a different Malkovich recently with a similar position (won't say which, in case the players are reading ), Bill Spight commented that this is an interesting option, and it seems so in this case. Each white move here looks inefficient in comparison with black's speed. That said, W would still have the option of stealing the corner, so I'd have to consider blocking that, instead. White may well tenuki here, but I'm cnotent with this 'border of two frameworks' play, regardless.