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2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3866

Page 4 of 6

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:32 am
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The hane doesn't work so I just going to extend. I think black got the better end of the deal here. We have some endgame reductions but they have development on both sides and sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 The hane
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:19 am
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No real choice, much as I want to get something like N3 or O3, we have a gote result over here. It's going to be hard to deal with our weak group, having to push here makes it weaker. I have a sneaking suspicion we have to push again before jumping, not that it's my decision.

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:52 am
by mw42
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm trying to pick a fight here. I want perceval to hane. If he doesn't then at least we get to push black to the second line.

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:25 pm
by perceval
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


mm strange i was expecting the obvious hane at a.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i could hane myself now at b but in fact it looks good to take sente: to deprieve us of the hane they will have to play again in the same area which will be gote. So i approach from an empty side, and we'll see later what to do with the bottom left
a little tewari to confort me: if they play later at a it would be has if we tenukied after the hane but the continued by extending which would just be strange


Guys, i am curious about the whole corner business, could you unhide your comments than can be unhidden ? i'll try to put together a sgf with the various comments, should be hilarious (or very sad) :lol:

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:05 pm
by mw42
This corner looks odd. I think my keima wasn a mistake. Anyway, I think Mnemonic should try attaching to the stone to make a moyo on the left.


I haven't been commenting much, but you can peak at all my comments, perceval, if you are curious.

Excepting the above comment and following comments as well, of course. :)

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:13 pm
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

We have tengen so we pincer. I don't know if this is a good rule of thumb, but you are supposed to start fight and pincers are a fine way of doing so. I choose the 2 space high because I like pincering, I don't like getting counterpincered. :mrgreen:

I don't like unhiding post since they seem to clutter the thread. I'll post some links to post that are ok to read and mildly funny:

1
2
3

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:13 pm
by Loons
What on earth happened to the board in the last twelve hours. argh.


I'll go unhide some posts, I'll mark it on the post.

Not hidden:
A diversion

I'm leery of unhiding any posts that still have relevancy to the game. Maybe once we make midgame.

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:29 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm speculating when and if I can work something like this in:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe if we can jump again on top sometime. I'm only vaguely familiar with mw42's move (in context of 3-3 invasion joseki: I think Emerus vs Redundant 2H had a cursory rundown of it if you're profoundly interested).

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:32 pm
by perceval
it is mw42's turn is that correct ? as there was a mix up last time i am not sure

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:35 pm
by mw42
Sorry for the delay, I must have fallen asleep.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like our last move, but I don't see anything better now then to go with so we're stuck.

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:02 am
by perceval
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i like mnemonik move i must say seems to work with the tengen; for that reason i prefer to grab a life base before jumping again; he might ignore and cap though ... we ll see

Edit: fix diag

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:00 am
by Loons
I'm totally jumping again. (Because a knights move there looks too good for white.)

PS: I feel like black is spectacularly behind after the last nine moves :/ We have a tiny corner, white now has a huge corner/side, and we have a weak group (assuming we settle this one).

PPS: Other than a better/simpler :b5: I'm not sure where I've gone wrong. What would you have played in my shoes, :b5: or otherwise?

PPPS: For perceval, when he reads this (at first completely accidentally in verse)-
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

'A' as you guessed was probably best
Although 'C' was a mention of mine
:b3: at D4 you were right to deplore
But forcing B4 C3 B3 before
Extending c9, things would be fine
(Play on both sides*.. and all the rest

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 . . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


*Admittedly getting four weak stones is not the best development.
**I inferred you thought A was best because you labelled it A.

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:48 am
by Mnemonic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not too sure about my choice now. I wanted a fight and ended up with a quickly settled black group :scratch: Need to be more careful about joseki choices next time. :sad:

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:29 am
by Tryphon
I'd have played F13 with no thinking.

I'd like to know if someone considered this move and why he rekected it.

Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:49 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: :w1: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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