Life In 19x19

mdobbins wrote:[..]

BTW, "round based" is commonly known as "turn-based" if you are searching for information.

Thx, Michael, I remember that it sounded odd to my inner ear when I wrote it but couldn’t remember the correct word.

Nyanjilla wrote:But we do take notice when two accounts play Rated against each other from the same IP address

Thanks for this post. I was completely confused by this whole thread until now.

Internet users connect to the internet in many different ways. Some have the same IP each time, others have a new IP each time they log in to the internet, yet others can accidentally get assigned an IP that the provider assigned them some time earlier. IP and a particular time identify the same internet access, but can mean access to the internet by several computers.

Because of all this, a KGS user cannot be identified safely by his current IP (although KGS can make a reasonable assumption that during a KGS user's login chances are great that his IP is the same, unless a house hosts several PCs under the same IP and several KGS users sharing the IP are logged in at KGS at the same time!). Banning an IP can mean to punish third KGS users who, at other times, get assigned the same IP because they use the same provider, in whose IP pool the IP is. (Many years ago, IGS appears to have banned a whole range of IPs and so punished many users for one user's action.) Needless to say, if any go server issued an IP ban, it would be unethical because also innocent users can be the victims of a ban.

Multiple accounts to avoid rating problems? I notice such, and, if it were admins' policy to avoid it, they currently were not succeeding. The only realistic way of succeeding is identity card identification. There can, however, be good reasons for multiple accounts: to avoid suffering from bad rating system design, to have accounts for different thinking time, to have special accounts for tournament broadcasts.

(RbtJsk = temporary admin's abbev. of RobertJasiek)

RbtJsk wrote:Internet users connect to the internet in many different ways. Some have the same IP each time, others have a new IP each time they log in to the internet, yet others can accidentally get assigned an IP that the provider assigned them some time earlier. IP and a particular time identify the same internet access, but can mean access to the internet by several computers.

Yes, but IP is the best method available since a majority of users do not have their home IPs change frequently. Everyone knows it's not a perfect system, but a good enough system.

oren wrote:Yes, but IP is the best method available since a majority of users do not have their home IPs change frequently. Everyone knows it's not a perfect system, but a good enough system.

Uhm, no. IP addresses over here change every 24 hrs, then I get assigned a new one (from my internet provider’s pool of IP addresses, I think, as has been decribed above).

Bonobo wrote:

oren wrote:Yes, but IP is the best method available since a majority of users do not have their home IPs change frequently. Everyone knows it's not a perfect system, but a good enough system.

Uhm, no. IP addresses over here change every 24 hrs, then I get assigned a new one (from my internet provider’s pool of IP addresses, I think, as has been decribed above).

I didn't know one case was a majority?

oren wrote:

Bonobo wrote:

oren wrote:Yes, but IP is the best method available since a majority of users do not have their home IPs change frequently. Everyone knows it's not a perfect system, but a good enough system.

Uhm, no. IP addresses over here change every 24 hrs, then I get assigned a new one (from my internet provider’s pool of IP addresses, I think, as has been decribed above).

I didn't know one case was a majority?

This is the case with AFAIK all German internet providers. And also AFAIK the reason for this is that they don’t want people to host their Web sites from their computers at home.

AFAIK, dynamic IPs are the norm in Germany. If I need (for go unrelated purposes), I can log out / in at my provider to get a new IP every few seconds.

It's common for commodity residential ISPs in Unistat as well. (Some of them offer static IPs for extra cost.)

Last time I checked, my home ISP doesn't even assign us with outside visible IP addresses. Everyone on that ISP gets the same apparent IP.

As far as I know, all DSL subscribers have a dynamic IP address (unless they pay extra for a static address).

My experience with cable (Comcast, to be specific), is that it is semi-static; it won't be changed in the middle of a session, but when I either reset my router or manually release and renew the IP address, I may or may not be assigned a new IP address.

This will change once we've transitioned completely over to IPv6 (when every single device will have its own unique IP address). Until that time, it's best to think of an IP address as the address of a "communal mailbox" rather than the address of a specific individual.

As for the argument that IP(v4) addresses are the best way of identifying a trouble maker... I refuse to believe that. If Facebook, Google, and others can successfully track an individual across the web (without relying on an IP address), then I am confident that better methods can be devised for KGS as well.

LocoRon wrote:As for the argument that IP(v4) addresses are the best way of identifying a trouble maker... I refuse to believe that. If Facebook, Google, and others can successfully track an individual across the web (without relying on an IP address), then I am confident that better methods can be devised for KGS as well.

Google actually leaves information on your computer in order too track you. AFAIK Facebook is the same. This would probably be very difficult to do compared to the relative simplicity of using IPV4, and it isn't like using IPV4 doesn't work.

RobertJasiek wrote:The only realistic way of succeeding is identity card identification.

Can kgs verify my identity from my French ID? Can they make sure an ID number is a valid one? For any country?
If they can (which I doubt) I'll never register.

Also I can use my little brother ID to make multiple accounts.

So no, it doesn't look realistic at all.

LocoRon wrote:As far as I know, all DSL subscribers have a dynamic IP address (unless they pay extra for a static address).

I used to be with a DSL ISP that gave all its subscribers static IPs. It was rather more expensive than most, though.

LocoRon wrote:If Facebook, Google, and others can successfully track an individual across the web (without relying on an IP address), then I am confident that better methods can be devised for KGS as well.

They track you according to your username. If you go to a new computer they don't magically know its you. You still need to login, at least once, WITH your username. So, if abusive individuals just hop between KGS accounts, I don't see what KGS can do to prevent this short of the IP block.