Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:48 am
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
These are the kind of moves I have problems with in my games. This is both a reduction to my moyo, an invasion, and a threat to connect with the lone stone at P7 or the one at Q13. I usually play as far away from them as I can, but in this case...
I don't know, it seems like this move works very well with my stones, and still allows me to separate his stone from the other two I mentioned. I considered O8, but it seemed too flat and passive.
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cEven 'a' feels off the spot. I usually like Bill Spight's moves in this type of situation, it seems that he can always pick the perfect spot. Guess I still need a lot of games before I develop that.
walleye
Dies with sente
Posts: 124 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:56 pmRank: IGS 1kGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 13 times
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by walleye Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:53 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
It's a good time to switch to the top side and try something there. The point I played feels good to me in connection with my stone at q13. Given the position of my stones, I'm obviously not very interested in living small in the corner.
I Black plays solidly I'll make trouble with
.
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BcIf Black hanes I will crosscut. Basically I'm trying this to see if Black makes a reading mistake there. After the crosscut a lot of variations are possible. I haven't read all of them but the important thing is that the ladder after
isn't working.
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:11 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
His move has all the signs of being a probe: it needs to be answered, I need to pick a direction before he does, and he does not need to follow it up. Okay, maybe he does need to follow up, otherwise my position is much better locally.
There are several ways to answer here, and I was tempted to go with d, and keep his stones all split, but giving him the territory doesn't seem worth it.
Especially since with b I can still leave his group without a base, and maybe can still cut it from the center stone.
a and c seem wishy washy, not committing to any course of action, and allowing him too much freedom.
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
walleye
Dies with sente
Posts: 124 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:56 pmRank: IGS 1kGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 13 times
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by walleye Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:17 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:50 pm
I'll move tomorrow, need to think more about this.
Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:23 am
Sorry walleye, forgot about this. :S
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cI might not be able to play until tuesday/wednesday afternoon, because of an exam.
walleye
Dies with sente
Posts: 124 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:56 pmRank: IGS 1kGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 13 times
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by walleye Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:45 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:01 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
walleye
Dies with sente
Posts: 124 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:56 pmRank: IGS 1kGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 13 times
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by walleye Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:53 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:31 am
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
I don't see any other move here that works.
I could play this before capturing:
$$c Possible trade
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Possible tradeBut it would remove some aji
$$c Possible trade
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c Possible trade
walleye
Dies with sente
Posts: 124 Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:56 pmRank: IGS 1kGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 5 times Been thanked: 13 times
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by walleye Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:53 pm
$$c
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$c
Black played a simple solid move again. I believe I have to defend now. If I take sente, Black will be able to separate my stones. For instance,
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcor
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WcHonestly, my reading is not good enough to decide if White can prevail in this case. My gut feeling is that White dies.
There is another way for Black.
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcand
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcwhich results in a ko. I capture first but Black can play elsewhere and be satisfied as there are many unsettled places around the board.
So the question is how to defend. Or rather, can I defend in sente. The most sensible thing to do is
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcor something like that, defending solidly and taking some territory. But Black can take sente after that. This
doesn't seem to have any good follow up. At least, I can't see any. So I'd like to defend more actively, at a or b instead of
. These leave a serious weakness but if I play passively I might as well resign now.
So, is it a or b? As far as I can see, a invites Black to play a peep and then take sente.
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WcSo I decided to go with b. I wish I could find something more intense but I can't see anything yet.
Numsgil
Lives in gote
Posts: 614 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:07 amRank: 1 Kyu KGSGD Posts: 0KGS: NumsgilHas thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 65 times
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by Numsgil Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:13 pm
Chew Terr wrote: Walleye: Thanks! When someone starts to explain something and says the phrase
, suddenly I understand what they're going to say and it all seems intuitive. Clearly, I should be thinking in those terms myself, and not just when things are explained to me.
Dusk Eagle: Thanks, I'll try to remember to consider that move in response to this shape.
Felt this same way. I guess it's just not something I've been formally introduced to, so in the thick of a game it's not how I think. Time to go be formally introduced I guess.
Numsgil
Lives in gote
Posts: 614 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:07 amRank: 1 Kyu KGSGD Posts: 0KGS: NumsgilHas thanked: 28 times Been thanked: 65 times
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by Numsgil Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:37 pm
So there's a good little book on the crosscut that Phelan should check out at some point.
Crosscut workshop . Actually off topic but I've found all of Richard Hunter's books extremely useful. Especially the "Counting Liberties and Winning Capturing Races" book. I'd consider that a must have for anyone's library.
But basically, "extend from the cross cut" is a bad thing to have in your brain.
Better: "Extend from the cross cut when you're strong. Atari when you are weak" (I remember this with the nice mneumonic: "weak players atari". Since it has that nice double meaning
). This is usually why you'll see black extend and white atari in handicap games.
Also: "Extend from the weaker side". Black extended from a relatively strong stone (it has nearby stones around it). Better to extend from the other black stone, since it's isolated. At least that's the principle. Not sure about this exact case.
And of course: "capture when you can." But not relevent here I don't think.
Phelan
Gosei
Posts: 1449 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:15 pmRank: KGS 6kGD Posts: 892Has thanked: 1550 times Been thanked: 140 times
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by Phelan Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:21 pm
Sorry, I won't be able to make a move today. Probably tomorrow, at the latest on monday.
.
isn't working.
). This is usually why you'll see black extend and white atari in handicap games.