Life In 19x19

Admins are humans too.

Araban wrote:Admins are humans too.

does that justify their behavior in any way though?

xDragon wrote:

Araban wrote:Admins are humans too.

does that justify their behavior in any way though?

No more or less than it justifies yours. It's up to you whether you want to keep arguing a point against them until you receive a reaction or just let it go and get on with your life.

skydyr wrote:

xDragon wrote:

Araban wrote:Admins are humans too.

does that justify their behavior in any way though?

No more or less than it justifies yours. It's up to you whether you want to keep arguing a point against them until you receive a reaction or just let it go and get on with your life.

well i dont believe in allowing an injustice or letting them bully users just because they can ban people.

i do find it funny just how many people are defending the admins in here. its no wonder they run around doing whatever they want, the users allow it to happen

xDragon wrote:

skydyr wrote: No more or less than it justifies yours. It's up to you whether you want to keep arguing a point against them until you receive a reaction or just let it go and get on with your life.

well i dont believe in allowing an injustice or letting them bully users just because they can ban people.

i do find it funny just how many people are defending the admins in here. its no wonder they run around doing whatever they want, the users allow it to happen

I'm not saying that the way things played out was right or just. When something bad happens, though, sometimes it's worth fighting, and sometimes it's not. You don't have control over how the admins, as admins or as people, respond to you, but you have a choice regarding your own reaction.

xDragon wrote:i do find it funny just how many people are defending the admins in here. its no wonder they run around doing whatever they want, the users allow it to happen

All of the what-ifs had not been thought out in advance, which is understandable given that this was the first match of its kind relayed on KGS. If an admin expressed an opinion earlier in the day that later he/she became unsure of, then they can't be blamed for being cautious during the match. Even if the judgement call ended up being wrong, I don't blame them one bit for erring on the side of not wanting to tick off a major sponsor right out of the gate.

In terms of the behavior in emails after the match, others can judge who was behaving badly.

Since we had the discussion about what exactly is a “professional” in Go we should also first define what “professional” behaviour is in this case.

So, before judging any of the admins I’d need to know whether they make a living off their admin “job”. If not, then I guess I’d expect semi-professional behaviour from them at most.

I have also disliked quite some of the examples of admin behaviour that have been posted in this forum, some were really childish … i.e. they acted like a child would that feels hurt: bash all around w/o caring whether you hit a culprit or an innocent person, and not caring about whether the reaction is appropriate. BUT this is a free service, and I assume that most admins do their work on an honorary basis. Therefore I’d also not expect the kind of mature, “professional” behaviour I’d expect in a … hotel … or a restaurant … or … from a social worker or my therapist <shrug>.

If it were a prerequisite that KGS admins had people skills then I guess we’d have 1/10 to 1/100 of the current admin count. And we’d probably have to pay quite a lot for playing there.

Another thing … whenever somebody uses the term “un/professional” … I always wonder in which field the person that uses this word actually is a professional. I mean, I’d expect different abilities from a social worker than from a media person, and even worse: the barber with their abilities might not even know what abilities the plumber may need, and vice versa. So … the word “professional” is a rubber word <shrug>

Just a few toot-ached thoughts.

Tom

Bonobo wrote:I have also disliked quite some of the examples of admin behaviour that have been posted in this forum, some were really childish … i.e. they acted like a child would that feels hurt: bash all around w/o caring whether you hit a culprit or an innocent person, and not caring about whether the reaction is appropriate. BUT this is a free service, and I assume that most admins do their work on an honorary basis. Therefore I’d also not expect the kind of mature, “professional” behaviour I’d expect in a … hotel … or a restaurant … or … from a social worker or my therapist <shrug>.

It's an interesting comment. Let's look at the analogy in a bit more detail.

Suppose that you enter a hotel and join the queue to talk to the staff at the reception desk. They greet you politely. You ask about the check-out time and they reply that it's 10 a.m. So far, all good.

However, you believe that the check-out time should be noon. The reception staff reply that it's not the hotel's policy, so you begin to list the reasons why it should be noon. When they don't agree, you point out that they're not very good reception staff and really shouldn't be working there. The check-out time at other hotels is noon, etc. A queue forms behind you as you press your point with the reception staff. When a customer in the queue asks you to wrap it up, you then argue with the customer as well as continuing to argue with the staff. After a period of time, the reception staff tell you to leave, so that they can help other people check into the hotel.

Let's suppose that a similar episode happens on a weekly or fortnightly basis for years, as you point out the flaws in the hotel for them to fix (e.g., the curtains are the wrong colour or the free wi-fi isn't fast enough or there aren't enough free peanuts at the bar). The result is almost always the same (i.e., telling the staff how to do their jobs and rarely reaching an agreement). Note that you are never a paying customer at the hotel.

Now you've walked through the entrance and ask about the check-out time yet again. What are the expectations of the front-desk staff? Are they unprofessional if they expect another unsatisfactory encounter?

BigDoug wrote: Now you've walked through the entrance and ask about the check-out time yet again. What are the expectations of the front-desk staff? Are they unprofessional if they expect another unsatisfactory encounter?

Yes. It's a bad example, because as soon you are in sales you essentially have to STFO and try to curb everything for the customer or lead to be pleased and pay. This is not the case in KGS, though, so I understand the point you try to convey.

Yes, you're right. I couldn't think of a suitable example which features volunteers and a free service. The best that I could think of was a soup kitchen (where the food is free and the people are volunteers), but that's not appropriate either.

Marcel Grünauer wrote:Teeth don't ever feel good.

Teeth would feel good to gourmets who rely on a full set of dentures to enjoy their food.

BigDoug wrote:Now you've walked through the entrance and ask about the check-out time yet again. What are the expectations of the front-desk staff? Are they unprofessional if they expect another unsatisfactory encounter?

Also, you go to other hotels to complain to patrons and staff there about the unprofessional behaviour at the first hotel.

BigDoug wrote:Yes, you're right. I couldn't think of a suitable example which features volunteers and a free service. The best that I could think of was a soup kitchen (where the food is free and the people are volunteers), but that's not appropriate either.

Admins being volunteers doesn't matter outside of "guaranteed availability." You get to play the "People have Lives" card when they're volunteers but that's about it.

That said, it's a private go server, owned by a single individual, it's his playground and no one has any right to use it, they are merely granted a privilege. So fair and unfair are very much relative measures here, i.e. either wms and the senior admins think it's ok or not and what we think only matters if they happen to agree with us.

I don't really see it as either a good or bad thing, just something people have to shut up, accept and move on if they're unhappy. We're not forced to play go on KGS, there are bigger servers out there if you feel like a game, albeit far less social.

BigDoug wrote:Yes, you're right. I couldn't think of a suitable example which features volunteers and a free service. The best that I could think of was a soup kitchen (where the food is free and the people are volunteers), but that's not appropriate either.

Doug, your comparisons are self-serving and ridiculous. You have neither the altruism of soup-kitchen volunteers, nor the profit motive of hotels. No, a better comparison is the neighborhood drug dealer. He might be a jerk, but you still need your fix so you make allowances, know what I mean? KGS has a semi-captive audience. Sure we could change drugs, but this is the one we like best. And I even like most of the dealers.

edit: changed "dick" to "jerk", even though it was referring to a hypothetical drug dealer rather than an actual human being.

wineandgolover wrote:

BigDoug wrote:Yes, you're right. I couldn't think of a suitable example which features volunteers and a free service. The best that I could think of was a soup kitchen (where the food is free and the people are volunteers), but that's not appropriate either.

Doug, your comparisons are self-serving and ridiculous. You have neither the altruism of soup-kitchen volunteers, nor the profit motive of hotels. No, a better comparison is the neighborhood drug dealer. He might be a dick, but you still need your fix so you make allowances, know what I mean? KGS has a semi-captive audience. Sure we could change drugs, but this is the one we like best. And I even like most of the dealers.

Really? Calling KGS admins dicks? Comparing admins to drug dealers, and players to addicts?