I don't know quite how to deal with this, but this is better than my previous suggestion, which I could only get to work with a favorable ladder, which we're never going to have. This result might be acceptable if we can live in the corner and make something of our weak group, because white is crawling away miserably. Might be better for white to sacrifice.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:17 pm
by Jedo
I think there may be issues with Fwiffo's suggestion:
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . 9 , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 4 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 7 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This way, we can at least salvage something by grabbing some side territory in sente using teh aji of the other stones. Then we will get a chance to lock down some more points/ reduce the middle
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:34 pm
by fwiffo
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm going to change my suggestion to this. Although I think Jordus's move is actually correct, I want to give our courageous captain some options, and I think this is better than the solid connection. My previous move is certainly bad.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:13 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
To observers:
I do believe that I have seriously screwed my undeserving teammates here. The version that I was initially thinking of requires the ladder, and we don't have it.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:34 pm
by Jordus
black chat:
the more i think about it the more I like this... less complicated then the other move, but black is still in danger... hmm...
$$Bc Continued in next diagram $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 4 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 6 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 0 7 . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 9 . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X 1 . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . 3 . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . 2 . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I dont know.... grrr.. lol...
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:46 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@teammates:
Sorry, guys, I screwed up big time. I played a line that required the ladder without remembering to check for the ladder. There is no last match in the matchbox.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:19 pm
by Jordus
@joaz
I think we can still salvage things... I personally don't feel threatened too much, I just can't decide at this point which move gives the better chance of survival....
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:09 am
by Chew Terr
It seems we've given them a lot to discuss.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:13 am
by fwiffo
Salvaging a small corner is about the best we can do I think. Resign?
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:18 am
by topazg
Team/Obs/Ramble:
Hmmm, this is some serious discussion. I think Black have made a mistake here, but I'm surprised there's enough local choices for Joaz not to have gotten an acceptable response. What is going on in these comments?
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:48 am
by Jordus
Black chat:
Here is what I see....
$$Bcm50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 1 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X 3 4 . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 7 X 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
so if white tries the ladder we will win it, if they don't we will get an even better result? at least that is what I am thinking... and we can actually come out of the ladder sooner than this too by playing the down part earlier...
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:50 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
To teammates:
I think our options are B15 or resigning. What do you think?
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:02 am
by Jordus
@joaz
I say we continue... fwiffo? jedo?
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:47 am
by fwiffo
I say continue (B15), and see how it goes, but we're in a bad way.
$$Bcm51 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . a X b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
. That way we don't get stuck with a cutting point if white pushes at a. But...