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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 37 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:53 am
by shapenaji
Thought I'd add a little more here, this is their most dangerous variation, and I may need to reach in and help:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 122 W55 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 4 X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . a O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X 3 5 |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O 2 |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And now we can't play "a", we must play "b"

If we play "a", the following happens:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 122 W55 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . W O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X X |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 . 4 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O 3 |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And we get a ko where they take first, on the other hand if we play on the other side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 122 W55 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 4 1 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 2 O O X X X |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 O O 5 X . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X W . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And we take first, with the excellent follow-up capacity of killing black on top.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:44 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Our next two moves must be S15 and O18. Order does not matter. So...

I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:19 pm
by shapenaji
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:57 pm
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 123 W55 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O B |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:04 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:23 am
by Violence
Rejected.
Called it...


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 123 W59 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X B |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:43 am
by Gresil
Whoa, talk about a blind spot.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:11 am
by daniel_the_smith
Wow a lot of my moves have been changed lately, I think I'm out of shape or something.

After like 15 minutes of making this post I can't see how this move is any better. We can win the race with either move, so... ?

The 4-5 exchange doesn't gain white any liberties, it's still white's turn and black is a liberty ahead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 123 W59 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X 5 . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 O O 4 X O O 1 |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also considered white going at (N17 or O17 or O18) to get more liberties, and in all three cases this move doesn't seem to make a difference.

Also, white next at P15 is forcing for either move. So what am I missing? :scratch:

(And as far as I can tell either (EDIT after more reading: neither) move allows us to kill the right side white stones.)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:30 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 124 W59 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O W |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move still makes those others gote. It should accomplish what the last move tried to, in addition to forcing

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:39 am
by daniel_the_smith
Yeah, and that's another way to show that the two moves are the same with regard to liberties.

Argh, this is driving me nuts.

Why did Violence change that move? I can't figure out how it could be 4 points better.

(btw I think this white move is pointless, but I don't expect it to be changed since it seems harmless also)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:42 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I agree completely with Terr's reasoning, and therefore approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:06 am
by Violence
One of those situations where I really hate being right about my teammates...

Last thing I want is for them to feel lost, but I don't think there's any other way out of this situation.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:59 am
by daniel_the_smith
I would kill to know what's in Violence's hide tags...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:26 pm
by lorill
@Daniel
You might want to kill too after reading it :batman:

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:07 pm
by shapenaji
Approved.
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 37 of 51

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