[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
EDIT: Oops, sorry about the sleeve tesuji.
The immediate attempt to live just gets us killed. The circled stones are too powerful. If we had something around 'a', maybe we could start a liberties race. But even that is difficult because they can make moves like 'b' that gain eyespace for them. If we had both 'a' and 'b', it might be tenable. Or if we had something around 'c' we might try running. But now it is premature.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X b O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . a . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X 2 1 . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X 3 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . 7 . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . W O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . W X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . c . . . . W X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . W X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X b O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . a . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X 2 1 . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X 3 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . 7 . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . W O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . W X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . c . . . . W X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . W X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Move 1 below is a reasonable move under normal circumstances, but we are behind. They can just reply with 2, and because of their strength on the left, they get more from the 1-2 exchange than we do. However, if the suggestion had been 1 at 2, that would be a different story. Not only would it be sufficiently aggressive toward the left, but if would be a ladder breaker for a ladder coming from the middle.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
An approach from the bottom is also a reasonable move, and I think that Fwiffo nailed the exact location. If they let us play at 'a' next, we can neutralize much of their strength. If they take 'a', we can take 'b', which still neutralizes some of their strength. It also removes some of the aji of a white invasion at 'c', which has worried me for a while.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O a . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 b . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . c . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O a . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 b . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . c . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In summary, if I were playing it, it would be a tossup between a reduction from the bottom and a reduction from the top. But the choices that I am given are a just-right reduction from the bottom, and a too-conservative reduction from the top. So we are going with the reduction from the bottom with D8.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:38 am
by tj86430
topazg wrote:TJ is now 4k
You must know something I don't
(I was briefly 4k @ kgs, but now I think I'm 6k or something)
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:41 am
by tj86430
Joaz, I think we would like to keep our stone @ C12
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:43 am
by tj86430
WIC:
My first instinct is D9, but I'm not sure if it's best, so I don't suggest it just yet
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:06 am
by Chew Terr
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O 2 . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yeah, this makes sense, though it does also commit us to preventing Black getting a huge lower left corner. Still, we can always probe and start red's ko
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:39 pm
by Jordus
Black Internal Chat:
I think playing to threaten a cut with is the perfect move now thanks to our stone
$$Bcm Prisoners: None $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O 2 . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O 2 . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 3 a . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
We really can't skip this follow-up. The hane would mostly undo our last move. We could try jumping up instead ( at a), but I always regret that when I try it.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:24 pm
by Jordus
Black Internal Chat:
I agree that the follow up is important if we can't keep sente. And chancing that they will play in a way that we can keep it is risky... but... extending just further tightens the noose on our black group at d13 and extends their moyo... and we can't forget that weak top left corner...what to do.... hmmmm....
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:02 pm
by fwiffo
Bump... Do we still have a game here?
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:20 pm
by Jedo
Apologies, middle of finals week over here. Suggestion:
$$Bcm57 Prisoners: None $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O 2 . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
is the perfect move now thanks to our 
stone
at a), but I always regret that when I try it.