Revisiting Go
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Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
Read the first, nirensei vs nirensei section of Way to Play for the 21st Century.
It's an interesting exploration of a tightly bound even opening, with professionally tempting diversions that turn out to be bad. I shall try and net some games with openings from the book, or at least openings inspired by. Go Seigen's presentation of the need for balance reminds of games where my moves seemed good but were impossibly daunting by the end of fuseki.
I desperately want to be the kind of player who will find and play
, though I don't think I have even ever played 
!
It's an interesting exploration of a tightly bound even opening, with professionally tempting diversions that turn out to be bad. I shall try and net some games with openings from the book, or at least openings inspired by. Go Seigen's presentation of the need for balance reminds of games where my moves seemed good but were impossibly daunting by the end of fuseki.
Go Seigen, A Way to Play for the 21st Century wrote:
I desperately want to be the kind of player who will find and play
, though I don't think I have even ever played !-
schawipp
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Re: Revisiting Go
I desperately want to be the kind of player who will find and play
Could you explain what is so special about
? My thoughts so far: If white later invades at M3 there will be the miai of jumping out or connecting to . But I'm not sure if needs to be played first or if omitting is more flexible. Maybe I've missed the real point about it(?).-
Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
Edit :
If black defends bottom too loose, O3 or Q3 will threaten to live on bottom or take the corner.
If black defends bottom too loose, O3 or Q3 will threaten to live on bottom or take the corner.
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schawipp
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Re: Revisiting Go
Loons wrote:If black defends bottom too loose, O3 or Q3 will threaten to live on bottom or take the corner.
Yes,
forces black to solidify his corner/bottom, so why not play 
right away and leave the corner undefended and wait for a better moment? Or did you mean that black needs another move at the bottom after making kind of sente'ish?-
Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
What next moves are you imagining? Implicitly black will play S6 next. I'm not really aware of white M3 invasion? I thought that was typically a mistake.
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Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
Right, in greater detail, 14 is the typical invasion in that shape. At 14 any answer other than connecting the peep would be trying too hard/be terrible. White could wait for later, but black is trying to build a moyo on bottom that white must address. Later, black could respond at 15, O3 or Q3 and has a better idea if the corner or moyo are worth more.
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Uberdude
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Re: Revisiting Go
The reason for playing 14 now is that black cannot resist it now, for example if black plays o3 or q3 then s5 s4 q5 r4 p4 connects to p3, breaking black's shape in half. On other hand if you play it later, after black has got s6 say and the p7 tesuji, then black may be able to answer differently (though the s5 tesuji might still exist).
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Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
For some reason I failed to mention that Go Seigen is specifically weighing in on Schawipp's suggestion. He does not like what was (is?) the standard line.
I got a nirensei v nirensei game! Naturally my opponent played 13...push Q8 etc instead of kick. I am getting more comfortable with these 4-4, one space pincer, jump joseki. My opponent also decided to make a heavy group and die that game.
Read the first few sanrensei variations.
I often get lost playing this invasion, perhaps partially because I think about the ladders too late:
I guess Go Seigen's book is slower going since it's very theoretical, whereas Master of Haengma was very intuition full board problem readingy, fundamentally a problem book. Still, enjoying the book a lot!
I got a nirensei v nirensei game! Naturally my opponent played 13...push Q8 etc instead of kick. I am getting more comfortable with these 4-4, one space pincer, jump joseki. My opponent also decided to make a heavy group and die that game.
Read the first few sanrensei variations.
I often get lost playing this invasion, perhaps partially because I think about the ladders too late:
I guess Go Seigen's book is slower going since it's very theoretical, whereas Master of Haengma was very intuition full board problem readingy, fundamentally a problem book. Still, enjoying the book a lot!
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Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
Terrible game by me as black, though my opponent managed to give it away so a terrible game all round. A little bit of very bitter self review.
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skydyr
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Re: Revisiting Go
Loons wrote:For some reason I failed to mention that Go Seigen is specifically weighing in on Schawipp's suggestion. He does not like what was (is?) the standard line.
I got a nirensei v nirensei game! Naturally my opponent played 13...push Q8 etc instead of kick. I am getting more comfortable with these 4-4, one space pincer, jump joseki. My opponent also decided to make a heavy group and die that game.
Read the first few sanrensei variations.
I often get lost playing this invasion, perhaps partially because I think about the ladders too late:
I guess Go Seigen's book is slower going since it's very theoretical, whereas Master of Haengma was very intuition full board problem readingy, fundamentally a problem book. Still, enjoying the book a lot!
Perhaps you could salvage it by turning it into a reduction/moyo expansion using the point below
?-
Loons
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Loons
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Re: Revisiting Go
I tenuously still exist.
I seem to be able to play still (I'm black):
Black getting 10 points bottom left in sente was too good.
I think white became slack around 50 and should have looked for trouble to use all the thickness, though the game did become quite close.
I seem to be able to play still (I'm black):
Black getting 10 points bottom left in sente was too good.
I think white became slack around 50 and should have looked for trouble to use all the thickness, though the game did become quite close.
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EdLee
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I wonder if helping your K4 floating group would be better ?
K10 ?
H5 ?
o14 double hane ?
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good exchange for W ?
Q17 ?
E15 ?-
Uberdude
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Re: Revisiting Go
q5 was soft and white l5 in response would have made things considerably tougher for you. One point jump to k6 would have been simple and good.