Re: Favourite Go Proverbs?
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 9:40 am
I would certainly consider "b" to be urgent(not big) given the incredible weakness of the group.
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'b' is not really urgent in my book, because it's just one stone (light & aji) and if Black tries to kill it then Black is limiting himself while giving White more sente elsewhere. So 'b' seems just big, as 'a' seems big, but I say that 'b' is bigger, because it uses the support of own stones in the surrounding and that makes it more powerful.Joelnelsonb wrote:I would certainly consider "b" to be urgent(not big) given the incredible weakness of the group.
Well, a play to fix the aji is urgent for black, so by extension, not letting him do it is urgent for white.Pippen wrote:'b' is not really urgent in my book, because it's just one stone (light & aji) and if Black tries to kill it then Black is limiting himself while giving White more sente elsewhere. So 'b' seems just big, as 'a' seems big, but I say that 'b' is bigger, because it uses the support of own stones in the surrounding and that makes it more powerful.Joelnelsonb wrote:I would certainly consider "b" to be urgent(not big) given the incredible weakness of the group.
Thanks for the diagram. It is clearer than your earlier verbal explanation.Pippen wrote:I propose: Moves that take advantage of multiple stones are bigger than moves without any support. So when you have to decide and in doubt you should decide to play moves around "your family". Let me give an example:Bill Spight wrote:No, he specifically states that the existing pack of stones is strong to start with. What he is proposing, I think, is "Non-urgent before big."
White to play. 'a' looks monstrous, but 'b' is bigger because it uses the marked stones ("family") and therefore has more power than a single move at 'a'. I hope my point comes thru. I recently got aware that where I did tenuki to play moves like 'a', professionals stayed in the local battle using every bit of the stones they already had on the board instead of jumping away. But it's hard to grasp the concept and put it into words.
This may have some validity but I think you are misreading the clues. Fuseki is largely (?mainly) about weak groups, which in turn is all about protecting prior investments, and so the basic rule for finding a move is to see if you have any weak groups and, if so, attend to the weakest one first. If you have no weak groups, look at the opponent's groups and if he has any weak ones, attack the weakest. Although mainly a fuseki notion, this works quite well later in the game, even in the endgame. Clearly some people are better than others at assessing weak groups, and there is also the question of personal style - some like to flirt with danger - but generally speaking pros make prophylactic moves much more often than amateurs.I propose: Moves that take advantage of multiple stones are bigger than moves without any support. So when you have to decide and in doubt you should decide to play moves around "your family".
Are you referring to "b"? It is a combination attack and defense move, by either player.Joelnelsonb wrote:I'm just not certain why you would call it a big move at all. In fact, I would highly regret having to make such a defensive, single purpose move so early in the game.
BothPippen wrote: This is basically a joseki, very common with pro's. They do play 5 and not moves that certainly look bigger and gain more shortterm. Of course one reason is that Black got a weak group. But my point is that it is also because 5 continues the other white moves in this area and therefore has more power.
I think it's the right direction: If you have some stones already in an area and you can add moves there to work together with them, then give that approach the benefit of the doubt before tenuki for single moves elsewhere (like Hoshi oder Kakari) since it's a good guess it won't be that big. And now I want the cool & short version.Bill Spight wrote:
Bothand
are stronger because the other one exists, right? IOW, they work together. That's why I think that the main concept you are looking for is work. (Yes, more stones generally mean more strength, but that does not mean that more stones are better.
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Go is efficiency of stones.Pippen wrote: And now I want the cool & short version.
The German equivalent would be "Ein Spatz in der Hand ist besser als eine Taube auf dem Dach.", literally meaning "A sparrow in the hand is better than a dove on the roof.".DrStraw wrote:The English equivalent is "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".oca wrote:Mine is "mieux vaut un tient que deux tu l'auras" but it's not a go proverb
I'm not sure how to translate that in english... I think it is "A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush" but I'm not sure...
And I was about to post "A go proverb over the board is worth two in the book", but I guess you preempted me.
shigeki wrote:An eye for an eye. Not a go proverb but still applies.
Swedish is "En fågel i handen är bättre än två i skogen" (One bird in your hands are better then two in the forrest. It seems we have different geographys (: )Tomoe wrote:I love this topic, sadly I only discovered it now![]()
Anyways, I'll add my two cents![]()
The German equivalent would be "Ein Spatz in der Hand ist besser als eine Taube auf dem Dach.", literally meaning "A sparrow in the hand is better than a dove on the roof.".DrStraw wrote:The English equivalent is "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".oca wrote:Mine is "mieux vaut un tient que deux tu l'auras" but it's not a go proverb
I'm not sure how to translate that in english... I think it is "A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush" but I'm not sure...
And I was about to post "A go proverb over the board is worth two in the book", but I guess you preempted me.