Life In 19x19

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:34 pm**

Hmmmm. No discussion. Is this one too easy?

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:13 pm**

My discussionn of Game 8.

Sakata Elo, 9 dan (White) vs. Iwamote Kaoru, 8 dan, 1956.
GoGoD 1956-00-00c.sgf. Komi = 4½ pts.

After

White has a winrate estimate of 93½% (17.9k playouts). However, Black, Iwamoto, won by resignation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc White is ahead. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . . X O O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Elf's main continuation (43.9k playouts) $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , 2 . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . . X O O O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

cuts two White groups apart. Then White has many options.

is Elf's top choice, but it has only 8.3k playouts. After

I guess the number of playouts dropped below 1.5k, which is why Elf stops there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 Jump to the 3-3 loses 14% $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf reckons that

loses 14% by comparison with the approach to the top left corner at a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Joseki play loses 19½% $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 O B O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@

According to Elf

loses 19½% by comparison with connecting at 14. At the time

was considered to be joseki, the connection was not.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 Elf's mainline variation for :b13: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 2 O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 O 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 8 . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is an interesting sacrifice. After

approaches the top left corner. Then

captures

.

makes a base with sente. OC, Elf does not consider this result as good as approaching the top left corner with

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Sagari loses 13½% $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . W . . . . a 2 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . W . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . . X O O O . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

secures the corner, but Elf thinks it loses 13½% by comparison with the attack at a on the

stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Elf's mainline variation for :b29: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . . X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

White makes eye shape.

Posted: **Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:13 am**

A short discussion:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The major issue with White's position is that the top left and the bottom left don't cooperate. There's no satisfying way to use the influence at the bottom. Black on the other hand has territory in two places and a big framework at the top

This may exemplify why bots prefer territory. Pieces of territory always cooperate: they just add up. Pieces of influence need to work together well, which reduces the options and makes it possible for the opponent to thwart.

Posted: **Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:25 am**

Knotwilg wrote: ...
$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...

I tend to agree with Knotwilg that black is the obvious winner, although I would do more to impede white's possible growth in the lower left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I did think that killing the two loose white stones was more important, I would not force him to fight near my weak stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . B O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . B O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

instead, I would kill while strengthening those stones

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . 4 . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . 6 . . . , . 5 . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:36 am**

Knotwilg wrote:A short discussion:

$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The major issue with White's position is that the top left and the bottom left don't cooperate. There's no satisfying way to use the influence at the bottom. Black on the other hand has territory in two places and a big framework at the top

This may exemplify why bots prefer territory. Pieces of territory always cooperate: they just add up. Pieces of influence need to work together well, which reduces the options and makes it possible for the opponent to thwart.

I disagree that bots prefer territory, but that discussion would take us too far afield, and is too abstract for my liking right now. We can just ask the bots in any particular position what they like.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:33 am**

Game 10.

With the usual assumptions, after

Elf estimates a winrate of 91% (119.7k playouts) for one player. Which one is it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm38 Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . O O . . | $$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . X X X X . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Enjoy.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:02 am**

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:47 am**

For me this is again a no-brainer. Black is better. The four central white stones hardly have any purpose. C10 isn't very useful either. Black's stones seem to cooperate well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 2 X O . 1 . . . . . X . O . O O . . | $$ | . 3 X , O . . X . , . . . X X X X . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . O , X . . 6 . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black can reinforce while harassing the upper left, then build influence while attacking (I know, bots want to attack and make territory).

may be too thin but I like Black here.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:58 pm**

I agree with Knotwilg that black is better, and I like

and

as they make territory and eye space while attacking.
But

, while very shapely, seems the wrong direction.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 2 X O . 1 . . . . . X . O . O O . . | $$ | . 3 X , O . . X . , . . . X X X X . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . O , X . . 6 . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white wants to run, black actually prefers that he run eastward, for then a move like

below is a double attack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 O . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 2 X O . 1 . . . . . X . O . O O . . | $$ | . 3 X , O . . X . , . . . X X X X . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . X O . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:48 pm**

Game 9, discussion of Elf commentary

Takagawa (W) - Rin Kaiho, Meijin Final, Game 3, 1969-09-09a. Komi = 5+ pts. (I.e., 5 pts. with White winning jigo.)

After

Elf gives Black an estimated winrate of 90½% with 33.8k playouts. However, White, Takagawa, won by 8 pts.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm44 Black is ahead. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elf's recommended continuation of the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm45 Elf's mainline continuation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . O X . . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 4 5 . . . X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . 0 8 . . 3 . . . X O . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . 9 7 . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

leans on the White group on the right side; then

tops the tree, capping the White center stones. As White runs out, Black's attack promises to erase White's potential in the left center.

Earlier in the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 "Obvious" block loses 10%, says Elf $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Which side to block the 3-3 invasion from is a question I cannot always answer. Usually the difference is small, but in this case it is 10%, and Elf recommends the opposite alternative to the one that appears to be the correct direction of play. (Takagawa would know.

) How come?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Elf's variation for :w16: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | 0 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 3 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 2 O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here is a clue. Instead of the traditional joseki (now obsolete) taking outside strength, White plays the two step hane and takes the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 Elf's variation for :w16: continued $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . 8 . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . 5 . . . W . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White does not make outside strength to work with the

stones. Instead, Black has a weakish group in hostile territory.

secures territory while attacking the Black group. Black makes elbow room with sente and then turn to his territorial framework in the top right quadrant.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm16 Elf recommended line after :w16: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O 7 . . . . W . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X 2 3 6 . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . 9 4 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Takagawa played

at 21, but Elf says to play the two step hane here, as well. (The difference only comes to 1%, however.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 Elf recommended line after :w16: continued $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X 6 9 . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , 5 7 . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 8 . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O 4 . . . W . 0 . . . , X . . | $$ | . 2 X X O X . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 3 1 O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this variation the

stone is weak.

reduces the Black framework in the top right, while Black attacks the

stone. On balance, this is better for Black than when he makes a weak group on the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm27 White loses more ground $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . W . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the actual game Black played the hane-and-connect in the bottom left corner, which was joseki before the AI era. In this case that is Elf's choice, too, probably because White ends up overconcentrated, given the

stones.

reduces the left side. But

loses 16½% and then

loses 11%. Each side made smaller errors, but White made three significant mistakes that gave Black a commanding lead.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm30 Elf mainline for :w30: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X 6 . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , 5 . 7 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and

make territory with the White wall. Black enlarges the Black moyo and then

and

reduce it.

blocks on the third line with eye shape. Then

secures the corner and threatens to connect underneath.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm34 Elf's mainline for :w34: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . 7 6 . 5 8 . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 9 0 . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . 3 . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Takagawa's underneath connection surprised me. It seemed too territorial. I expected something like Elf's

in this diagram.

is on the frontier of moyos.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm44 Elf's mainline for :w34: continued $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 2 X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O X . O X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O 4 1 3 . 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

threatens to cut the four White stones off, but White turns and then boldly jumps into Black's moyo. OC, Black still has around an 80% advantage.

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:11 am**

Game 11.

After

Elf gives one player a winrate estimate of 90½% (28.3k playouts). Which player is it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Enjoy!

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:32 am**

No Lizzie

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . c O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X b . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . 2 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's just add this sequence and then evaluate. I don't see how Black could allow White to solidly connect at

and then the rest is forced.
Black has two cutting points and both are severe

White c is sente, so the left becomes a big territory after the cut at b.
So probably Black will allow the cut at a, because he can jump into the corner.

White in general looks more active in this game. That's due to Black's surrounded L+1 group in the top left, which is probably where Black made a premature corner invasion. I wonder which move Black got in exchange for White's marked keima.

...

That was until I edited the diagram and looked at the result. At second glance, White looks low and Black can probably make shape, treating these stones lightly, as the corner invasion is available. The mentioned keima doesn't have a function if Black covers the cut at b in a light way.

So now I'm unsure.

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:21 pm**

The hottest region on the board is clearly the left side. My first reaction is that black should play there.
But white has two good options: the connection at 'a' or the capture at 'b'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Black to play. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Because of those, black comes out badly regardless of how he plays on the right. ( Knotwilg has shown us at least one such unpleasant outcome )

So, in a fit of desperation, I would treat all three stones as light, and tenuki. The tenuki would of, course, have to create a situation of an even higher temperature, otherwise white would ignore it and play the connection.

Ideally, I would try to tenuki in such a manner that I might be able to make white commit to a course of action that would tell me which of my left side stones might be worth investing in, and which should be abandoned.

Fortunately for black, such a move exists.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure which of the variations below are best, but all look better for black than trying to fight immediately on the left side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 5 1 . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . 5 1 . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . X . . X , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

When the dust finally settles, I think that I prefer black - but not strongly enough to predict a win rate of 90+ percent.

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:45 pm**

Lizzie

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:46 am**

This thread has been very enlightening for me. It's surprising how challenging it is to tell the balance of a game when you don't know how it was played! I think I'm getting the hang of it as we go on, starting to figure it out faster and faster. Personally, the only thing that would make this thread any better for me would be the inclusion of "even" as a possibility. After all, when I'm playing a game, it's just as likely to be even as lopsided!

Life In 19x19

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Re: How is your positional judgement?

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Re: How is your positional judgement?

Re: How is your positional judgement?