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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:47 pm
by Suji
@ Araban: I love your explanations, and I'd have to say that you're making an interesting game accessible to beginners like me. I especially like how you don't go into long complex variations, and I enjoy your global assessments.

Overall, I'm learning a lot just by watching your videos/reading your commentary. Keep up the good work! :D

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:52 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Kirby wrote:
Araban wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Sol, ummm...you may have a typo in the trigger.

I see no typo.


I think that Joaz missed the second instance of the word, "then". I also did the first time that I read it.


Yep, that was it.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:43 am
by Solomon
Suji wrote:@ Araban: I love your explanations, and I'd have to say that you're making an interesting game accessible to beginners like me. I especially like how you don't go into long complex variations, and I enjoy your global assessments.

Overall, I'm learning a lot just by watching your videos/reading your commentary. Keep up the good work! :D

Thank you! If you have any questions regarding anything, let me know and I'll do my best to help make things crystal clear :).
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Yep, that was it.

Ah okay, I could see how it could be misread so I fixed it.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:53 am
by Suji
Araban wrote:
Suji wrote:@ Araban: I love your explanations, and I'd have to say that you're making an interesting game accessible to beginners like me. I especially like how you don't go into long complex variations, and I enjoy your global assessments.

Overall, I'm learning a lot just by watching your videos/reading your commentary. Keep up the good work! :D

Thank you! If you have any questions regarding anything, let me know and I'll do my best to help make things crystal clear :).


I will do that.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:16 am
by Tabemasu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . W X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess he wants to play this common sequence, this way I can build up my moyo on the left, and I think I can be satisfied.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 7 . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 O X 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He could also play this way instead. He is completely alive with some territory, but I get sente and I might get the chance to cut at 'a' later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 5 O 4 . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 O X 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 1 3 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The reason I didn't kick first was because I wanted to build a large moyo. I didn't want him playing something like below because he can treat his stones rather lightly and reduce my potential while also aiming to attack W2.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . 2 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The high pincer didn't really have any deep meaning. Since I am going for a moyo, I will naturally play higher moves. Anyway, keep the questions coming, and sorry for taking so long.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:21 am
by Solomon
Hey Gus :). I offered a trigger sequence in my last move/post, so my automatic/triggered response is C2. Then, if you play E3, I connect at D2.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:46 am
by zinger
What about this reply for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like a good messy fight ... is there some outright refutation?

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:57 am
by uglyboxer
zinger wrote:
What about this reply for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like a good messy fight ... is there some outright refutation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 4 O X 1 . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Just a thought.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:01 am
by daniel_the_smith
uglyboxer wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 4 O X 1 . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Just a thought.

I think white would play :w6: one point above :b7:.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:33 pm
by uglyboxer
daniel_the_smith wrote:
I think white would play :w6: one point above :b7:.


Ah yes, I always miss that one. *headslap*

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:28 pm
by Kirby
zinger wrote:
What about this reply for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like a good messy fight ... is there some outright refutation?


This is also a joseki, at least locally, zinger. But Gus said that he wanted to work toward a moyo on the left, so I don't know if this sequence is consistent with that strategy. But in itself, at least locally, it's another joseki.

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:57 am
by Tabemasu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:02 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Triggers are a pretty tricky concept... :twisted:

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:14 pm
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

(part of trigger sequence I posted earlier)

Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:52 pm
by Tabemasu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O W . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]