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102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3307

Page 5 of 8

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:59 pm
by Loons
I think black's resistances make this a fun tsumego.

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:51 pm
by Magicwand
for obs only:
:b1: is my first instinct..does it work?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:01 am
by gaius
@Magicwand:
It looks kind of nice to break the ladder, but... What's the plan here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:57 am
by Magicwand
gaius wrote:@Magicwand:
It looks kind of nice to break the ladder, but... What's the plan here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

it breaks ladder and also same time it breaks the net.
didnt really read deep but something close to below variation..
below variation is bad for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 9 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . X 6 . 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:41 am
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Agonised between this and the table shape. I chose this in the end because it takes a liberty from white, which will be valuable later.. I also considered hitting the two stones on the nose, but white gets a good result if he answers correctly, according to my reading.

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:26 pm
by Chew Terr
Shaddy wrote:
Agonised between this and the table shape. I chose this in the end because it takes a liberty from white, which will be valuable later.. I also considered hitting the two stones on the nose, but white gets a good result if he answers correctly, according to my reading.


Shaddy:
Mind sharing your reading of the correct response?

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:28 pm
by Shaddy
Chew Terr wrote:
Shaddy wrote:
Agonised between this and the table shape. I chose this in the end because it takes a liberty from white, which will be valuable later.. I also considered hitting the two stones on the nose, but white gets a good result if he answers correctly, according to my reading.


Shaddy:
Mind sharing your reading of the correct response?

For all:
Looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 2 . 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And black has problems..

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:31 pm
by Chew Terr
Thanks, I think I was missing 4.

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:42 pm
by cloud
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm49 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 1 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Good timing for this hane in my opinion. Black will almost certainly answer, and it helps secure the life of the corner group. This fight is interesting to me.

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:22 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:57 pm
by cloud
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Time to live in the corner.

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:16 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Get your sente while it's hot!

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:30 pm
by cloud
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is a better way to live then simply pulling back because it leaves some bad aji around O17

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:30 pm
by Shaddy
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:45 pm
by Laman
the game is really exciting so far and it is nice to watch two dan players playing, but would mind separating your actual move(s) from previous move(s) of your opponent? i don't know about other spectators but it is a bit confusing for me to check every diagram with the previous one to see which moves are really new. hopefully it wouldn't add much work for you

if you have some special reason for that way of making diagrams or if others like it this way, then feel free to skip my post and sorry for disturbing
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