103. EdLee vs topazg

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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm in crazy experiment mode. This doesn't actually work, but I want sente, and I've decided to try something. Besides, this feels yucky:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's strongest resistance is as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll throw out my preparation if we get that far :)
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Chew Terr: First, I think it's wonderful we have this kind of forum (formerly GoDiscussions.com)
and this format where people abide by a honor code so we can freely share ideas and thoughts in hidden tags.
And of course I have to thank Topazg to add yet another Malkovich game onto his busy schedule.
Now, to the game itself :study: --
This is my first Malkovich game, and it's been very interesting.
Before this, I knew very little about the double approaches:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]
So the upper left corner gave me a chance to study this a little bit (Post #44, etc.)

Afterwards, the direction of :w20:,(a) or (b), was difficult (Post #49),
and it was another good chance to study some Magic Sword variations for some guidance.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As W, since B goes first, I always feel a little behind.
I'm always concerned about the correct directions, weaknesses on both sides,
efficiency of stones, good and bad shapes, good and bad aji,
not seeing important tesujis, and maintaining overall balance (especially as W) -- all the usual suspects.
Generally, my goal on every move is try not to play something I'll regret later.
Specifically, for now, I keep an eye on (c), and try to get sente to play :wc: first.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O c . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It's still a little early; I don't know how to judge the current situation.
In particular, I don't know if :w20: was the correct direction;
that's something to find out post-game. :-?
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers:
unkx80 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would be inclined to play :b1: here, and treat the marked black stone lightly.


I agree completely. I was thinking that it might be best to treat it lightly even before the two circled white stones were played.

How close does a stone have to be to a wall before both players will decide that it is compromised and therefore not worth their time?
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Shaddy
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Shaddy »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:For observers:
unkx80 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would be inclined to play :b1: here, and treat the marked black stone lightly.


I agree completely. I was thinking that it might be best to treat it lightly even before the two circled white stones were played.

How close does a stone have to be to a wall before both players will decide that it is compromised and therefore not worth their time?

Obs.
This, I think, depends on the tactical situation (meaning the specific wall and perhaps global stuff). If the wall can slide under the stone's extension, depriving it of a base, that's too close, or if there's some other nastiness that the wall can do to the stone. OTOH if the wall is lacking eyeshape maybe such a stone wouldn't be too close.
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can save those two stones later if needs be, what I need is the ability to jump out smartly.
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

For what it is worth, the block was aiming at something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X X 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . 2 . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now Black has made reasonably strong shape with good eye potential, easy access to the middle, and conceded around 15 points - for 12 of the 16 stones White has played, I'm happy with this (and 2 walls of thickness facing each other this closely is generally overconcentrated).

As a result, I suspect White won't play to push and cut, but it does mean I get to connect to my stones in semi sente, so that's fine too.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Connecting at :w1: or (a) seems slow and gote --
the two :bc: stones are not small, but I think B is happy to trade them for :b2: and :b4:,
after which B exudes power from the center all the way to the entire right side:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O B B . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O 3 . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 3 . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So it seems the small knight's :w1: or the large knight's :w28:
is a big shared point for B and W; I probably should take it first.
(p)
Instead of :b25:, if :b1:.. :b5:, then, for example, W either gives up the 2 W stones (W(a)), or B can destroy W's eyeshape in sente (W(b));
B also has the option of (c) for better eyeshape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :w4: tenuki
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . .
$$ | . X X X . X . O
$$ | . . O O O O . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 a . . . . .
$$ | . b . X . O . .
$$ | . . O 1 . . . .
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . .
$$ | . . c X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . .[/go]
In my second variation, if :w1: keima, B can jump to :b2: to fight,
so the large keima :w28: was better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . .
$$ | . X X X . X . O
$$ | . . O O O O . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . 1 .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 2 .
$$ | . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . .[/go]
Last edited by EdLee on Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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topazg
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Well, that was a very silly move order mistake. Ed's too smart to just push and cut there. If I get sente for connecting them, I will, but right now, I need to jump out. I should have played something like this I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Will try to handle this group smartly.
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Magicwand
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Magicwand »

for obs only:
if he want to jump below is correct.
what he suggested is too thin and will pay for that weakness later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B C . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re:

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...


I really like this move.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Re:

Post by topazg »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
...


I really like this move.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Me too, it's rather good :-?
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: 103. EdLee vs topazg

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think Topazg is hurting himself with this move. The best way to counter EdLee's latest move would be to isolate it, not to make it stronger.

I expect that EdLee will play the proverbial hane like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now Topazg almost has to crosscut with 4, lest EdLee take 4 for himself.

White 5 is a no-brainer, then 6 is a problem for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Give white the monster ponnuki in the center?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 2 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 4 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc A splitting attack, with both groups running south toward white's strength?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 8 4 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No matter how it plays out, black will have succeeded in forcing white to become strong in the center. Not only does this bode ill for black on the left side, but eventually the cut at G16 will bcome pointless.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Forced, otherwise the broken shape is out of the question:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :w1: tenuki
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . O . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 2 X . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Locally, a hane/cross-cut/clamp is expected as B tries to use a contact fight to neutralize W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Follow-up: cross-cut (a) or clamp (b)
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . O . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 1 X . .
$$ | . . . X . a O . .
$$ | . . . . . . b . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Variation
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . O 3 . .
$$ | . . O . . 1 2 . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

For :b23:, maybe something like :b1: instead of (c) was possible:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . X X X . X . O .
$$ | . . O O O O . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . c . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
And for :b27:, perhaps a jump directly instead of (d):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . X X X . X . O .
$$ | . . O O O O . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X . O . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . d . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]
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