Page 5 of 17
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:37 am
by Magicwand
Laman wrote:
white R12 looks premature to me. black blocks the corner and white lacks an obvious continuation
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1i would most likely play O17, in the biggest empty space, and then start thinking about an invasion on the right
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1
if black answer as below...it is very good for white.
white can play as below and create ladder breaker and escape at same time.
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1your suggestion is good but black will build moyo and now it is very hard to invade..
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1i am not going to say i am right but that is what i feel...
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:08 pm
by EdLee
$$Wm30
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm30(p)
Not good. Even just fixing the shape with
is better:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:35 pm
by EdLee
After some thought, I still went with my first feeling.
If B takes
first, it's a bit annoying to find a good continuation for W:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B(For beginners, too.) As it is, I feel lucky to end in sente to play on the right first.
With this
invasion, B may build some kind of wall on the right side,
which will greatly diminish W's development on top -- this seems reasonable,
as W reduces B's right side, so B reduces W on top:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:57 am
by Loons
Haha, unexpected. What's my track record on predicting moves at this point?
Pretty sure I'll play on top next (unless I develop some kind of brilliant plan starting with attacking R12 somehow (eg P12 or P13 directly)). My inclination would otherwise be 3rd line on top (ie M17), but now that I already have something to attack I will give more thought to high moves (high moves provide support in a fight).
If I had to guess why Ed played 30, I would assume because he wants to play N4 soon and threaten to bring my (current) Q6ish thickness under attack.
$$Wcm30 Reference.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30 Reference.edit;
PS: I suspect the plan goes something like, I play from toppish, he contacts R8 and is then either out in the centre or can slide S14ish to live happily on the right. If I need to thwart that, taking R10 myself directly or indirectly is interesting but feels a little like sub-par direction to me. I think I can probably accept this plan, especially if it gives me a second play on top.
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:06 am
by Loons
$$Wcm30
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:39 am
by EdLee
Tenuki, tenuki. Interesting.
Some first feeling ideas:
(a) keima; (b) 3-3; (c) iron pillar; (d) kosumi; (g) jump; (
e-
f-
g) shape:
$$Wm30
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm30My guess is Loons considered (p) and (q) directions miai:
$$Wm30
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm30
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:22 am
by EdLee
$$Wm32
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm32
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:27 am
by EdLee
Very non-trivial for me. So I took a long time and still went with one of the first feelings.
One purpose is to prevent B from sliding under with something like (x).
I decided against the (
e-
f-
g) sequence because I don't want
to make B's corner any stronger; I'd like to keep the aji there as-is.
The iron pillar (c) is solid, but maybe too solid, a bit slow, so I rejected it too.
$$Wm32
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm32
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:55 am
by Loons
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:09 am
by Loons
$$Wcm32
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm32
(Edit)
More explanation of why I chose 33:
White playing a thick move locally makes my three space extension thinner, so I want to reinforce it.
Both Ed and I have big prospects on top. Only I have prospects on the right.
A play on the right has to unsettle R12. It's already unsettled.
Ed's shape top left has a little bit of aji until he gets a proper cut-fixing move, so my plays on top are a little more sente.
More broadly: I think my D13 group is potentially positioned well to thwart what prospects Ed is building in the centre.
What I do hope for from R12: I am hoping it makes Ed miss the R17 invasion. I haven't yet come up with a good active play that really takes away any invasion from the top right by leaning on R12. Maybe R14 - P12 - N12 ?
$$Wcm32
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm32
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:47 pm
by EdLee
I made a big mistake, I think. It's amazing even with 2 days this blunder can still happen.
Note to self: don't play when tired, even if it's been sitting for a few days.
I saw Loon's
right before I went to sleep, and I thought of resigning.
Let's think about this a bit and see if there's still any hope.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WNow the other variation looks so much better.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W(p)
The
kosumi was not bad; in fact, it's the right direction to help
.
Instead of
, W could also settle on the right side with
and (b), etc.:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WThe kick variation was inferior to
because of W's weaknesses top left:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WThe keima
(
) is a kind of thank-you move, because it helps W fix his weaknesses top left:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WInstead, B could've jumped directly into the (c) areas and exploit the weakness at (d), etc., and suddenly
is even under attack:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:27 pm
by EdLee
$$Wm34
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm34
Probe. I inadvertently turned the game into an entirely new direction with
.
So before I proceed, let's see Black's replies here first.
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:45 pm
by Loons
Hard
There's got to be a splitting attack here somewhere.
$$Wcm34
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm34There's got to be a splitting attack here somewhere. This is where I am strong, so I should respond thickly. But which thick response is going to be useful where... I also have to be careful about my marked stones coming under attack, while I want to run in on top with them as well.....
Re: 126. Loons v. EdLee
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:23 pm
by Loons
$$Wcm34
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm34
Re:
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:38 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
EdLee wrote: I made a big mistake, I think. It's amazing even with 2 days this blunder can still happen...
I think that Ed is being too hard on himself. L15 looks like a decent move, maybe the best move.
is better:
first, it's a bit annoying to find a good continuation for W:
invasion, B may build some kind of wall on the right side,
Some first feeling ideas:
e- 
f- 
right before I went to sleep, and I thought of resigning.
kosumi was not bad; in fact, it's the right direction to help 
.
( 