Life In 19x19

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:22 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wanted to take A14 in sente first, but if you responded with B18, this 31 no longer seems sente. This move is sente because it threatens to take B18 myself. What do you think, is this enough opening for our purposes, or would you like to keep going until the big points on the bottom and left are taken? I had originally estimated 30 moves as a reasonable approximation of the big opening, but it's up to you.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:45 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O X . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sounds good. But do you mind if I just see how you respond to this? And even if my reading is right, this move seems troublesome, but it would probably be my move in a real game so...

Well I read it out

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 5 X 7 8 . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | 4 O O X . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | 3 X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Dead

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . 1 . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or a really long Ko against black

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . 1 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I think 32 gives me a chance to chase those floating five stones and reinforce some territory on the top. If I'm right and this is the case, though, black could choose to tenuki for the time being....

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:01 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X a a . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O X . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

32 is bad because of the cutting aji ('a').

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . 2 . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is better. Also, the corner variations are suspect. For instance:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . a . . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X O . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | O O O X . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

40 is not optimal, White can play at 'a' instead. However, this doesn't need to be considered because the variation leading up to 39:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 5 X 7 8 . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | 4 O O X . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | 3 X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Isn't correct either; specifically, the 37 38 exchange.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | 7 a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 6 5 X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | 4 O O X . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | 3 X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This way Black gets a ko.

Given the situation on the board, I'd just play here to get rid of the ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:04 pm**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | 7 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 4 3 X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . | $$ | . O X O O . . . . . O X O O X . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | 6 O O X . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | 5 X X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Oh, good catch. I guess it's a ko. Not that I mind losing the stones in the corner, as I'd meant to sacrifice them in the first place. So I guess it's kind of a picnic ko? I would probably play the ko but aim at playing 'a' if possible.

edit: And it looks like Araban beat me to the punch of showing the ko. =)

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:19 pm**

Well going a little further was to give D13 an easier time being pulled out just in case. But I think your move is better...thank you! Very helpful post

I think this is enough for going further this game

Thanks!

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:27 pm**

No problem, thank you very much for going over this opening with me. I'll go back through and see if I have anything to add. As far as your most recent comment: I wouldn't worry too much about pulling out D13. There's a difference between a useful cutting/territory stone and a stone just splatted against an enemy wall. Unless you think you can actually get my whole wall under severe attack, it's not worth saving your single stone. Much better would be something like c9, to build a framework with your bottom left and prevent me from making as much use of my wall to build my own.

And for what it's worth, before Araban pointed it out, I wasn't aware of how serious the aji behind that jump was, in this case.

Thanks to Mezz and to all of the observers! Mezz, I feel like I may have learned more than you did! I should probably go study some wide-approach joseki...

Life In 19x19

Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Re: Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Re: Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Re: Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Re: Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Re: Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice

Re: Chew vs Mezzanyne: Opening Practice