Page 5 of 17
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:42 pm
by EdLee
Graham, gaius:
Pro evaluation:
(1)
is gote. (My reasoning was correct.)
topazg wrote: I feel like this is a case of urgent before big.
(2) Yes, but here the lower right corner is more urgent than the upper left corner. B's upper left corner group is OK.
$$Wm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wm27gaius wrote: This is why the marked black stone was in the wrong direction.
(3) Correct.
was not good. Better was
(c) directly.
(4) My
(a) keima is not good; it does not close W.
(b) attach is better -- it closes W. However...
(5) Better is still
(c) directly -- this is more urgent than the upper left corner.
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:47 pm
by topazg
@Ed:
Very many thanks. Actually, "c" is one of those completely obvious moves ... after someone has pointed it out
That both stops White from settling and leaves the stones heavy - good spot that pro
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:50 pm
by tj86430
Hmm, I'm really looking forward to see what all the fuss is about...
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:53 pm
by EdLee
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:55 pm
by EdLee
tj86430 wrote: Hmm, I'm really looking forward to see what all the fuss is about...
"Nothing to see here. Move along..." (until after the game.
)
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:59 pm
by Kirby
Clearly, everyone here is discussing my hidden in-depth and thought provoking analysis.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:36 pm
by EdLee
TJ, actually there's some good stuff here. Hopefully, soon the game will have progressed enough that we can unhide some of these posts.
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:02 pm
by Kirby
I guess, since I'm bored, I'll provide some (shallow) analysis (which is lacking in depth).
I don't know how tj86430 plays, but I hope for the following:
$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0If that's the case, maybe I can keep the flow by threatening his group:
$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0I have no real aspirations to kill his group, but I want to have fun with it. Push him around, get some stones placed where I want to in the process.
I want to do that for as long as I think he'll respond to me. I guess this is different than "as long as it's sente", because that's how I play handicap games as white.
It's probably a habit, but since I'm behind, if I can get moves in that may not be sente, but I feel they will respond, I sometimes play them. I guess that's probably bad, but... Otherwise I get discouraged being behind.
Anyway...
Once I do get the chance to take sente, I'm not quite sure where I want to play. I want to make a ruckus on the bottom, but I wonder if that's best. Maybe I should help my two stones on the bottom right.
That seems so lame, though...
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:32 am
by tj86430
$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:58 am
by Kirby
$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:11 pm
by tj86430
$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:40 pm
by tj86430
I will be on the road most of tomorrow. After that I will spend a week in a summer cabin, where the only internet connection is via my mobile, so I may or may not be able to play. I will try though.
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:13 pm
by Kirby
$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0No problem.
Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:31 pm
by tj86430
$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:29 am
by EdLee
tj86430 wrote: I haven't really had time to read enough, but I can't think of anything better.
(For beginners.) Let's look at these 3 variations:
$$B Var. 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 1$$B Var. 2
is gote;
tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O . O . . . .
$$ | . O X . O B . O . .
$$ | . O . X X 1 . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 2 $$B Var. 3
tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O . O . . . .
$$ | . O X . O X . O . .
$$ | . O . X X 2 4 . . ,
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . O . 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 3 Next: Var. 1.
Var. 1 should be immediate suspect because of the bad shape for B -- W has hane on both heads of the two B
stones:
$$B Var. 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 1Later, W may not want to be "nice" to B with W(a) -- rather, W may cut with
and suddenly B has two weak groups.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WSo, with Var. 1, B has created a heavy group for himself -- this is the real game move
.
Next: Var. 2.
If the
stone is important to B, B should simply connect with
-- this is better than Var. 1.
$$B Var. 2
tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O . O . . . .
$$ | . O X . O B . O . .
$$ | . O . X X 1 . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 2 (For beginners.) Unfortunately,
is gote. Verify for yourself B cannot cut with
:
$$B Var. 2
tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O . O 3 . . .
$$ | . O X . O B . O . .
$$ | . O . X X 1 . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 2 Getting gote so early in the game is bad, which brings us to Var. 3, next.
The
stone is not important to B. It is still early in the game. It's bad to get gote now.
So Var. 3 is the best choice for
-- tenuki.
$$B Var. 3
tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X O . O . . . .
$$ | . O X . O B . O . .
$$ | . O . X X 2 4 . . ,
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . O . 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Var. 3
is gote. (My reasoning was correct.)
was not good. Better was 
(c) directly.
is gote; 
tenuki
.
: