#180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:29 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X 7 . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe something like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X 1 . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . 4 O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My goal is just to live here, but getting sente also seems to be huge at the moment. I'll look at it in more detail once I not how black's going to fight the corner.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:15 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . 8 O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As I said I believe my last move was a mistake. I made this one because the other responses seem too passive given my stones surrounding the corner, and tenuki would drastically contradict my last move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . b X 7 . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . a O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:19 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

jts · Post by **jts** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:44 pm

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:06 am

Looks like I just have to add an extra move to live.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So not sente, but not a disaster. :roll:

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:13 am

I did not expect that move. Don't have time to read this well yet. Instinct points to these:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:30 pm

Sorry for the wait, struggling with a very time-intensive class.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:21 am

No problem. I'm pretty busy at the moment as well.

It looks like I might not even be able to live in the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X 3 | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 2 X O 7 | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O 6 . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I atari on the other side...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b 1 X 4 | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 2 X O 5 | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks alive with "a" and "b" miai for a second eye, but I can't allow the black to descend at S12 without defending my bottom right group, so I need to look at how that will affect the fight in the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 5 8 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 3 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That's okay

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . B X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 4 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And the corner dies. I need to think about if there's a better line or if I can afford to skip 4.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X. . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 3 X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Conditional move also included.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:48 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 5 | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:10 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O 6 | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:30 pm

Conditional move included

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O 7 . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 9 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:56 pm

Conditional move accepted but I need to think about my next one.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:22 pm

General Game related comment:

I'm just playing the sequence I posted earlier, so there's not much to say about that, but I think I should probably have explained more about the decision to invade in the first place, because recognising the value of these seemingly tiny invasions is something that I used to really struggle with.

It comes down to a concept that is at the heart of go: Exchanges. One of the first things I read when returning to go after a 2 year break was the sensei's library page on ippoji. It completely changed the way I thought when playing the game because I used to think of invasions as basically just profit. i.e The invader takes territory that would have belonged to the other player, and they are either successful and live, or the other player fights them off and they die. Now I realise that they are much more complicated than that.

The most obvious example is the 3-3 invasion of a 4-4 stone. I'm sure everyone knows that the invader takes territory while the invadee (my spell-checker says that's not a word but it should be so I'm leaving it in :mad:

) builds thickness. A direct invasion is usually considered a bad ides, so let's say they play joseki like below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]B Corner $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O O X . . . . $$ | . . O X X O . X . $$ | . . O X . . . . . $$ | . . . X . . . . . $$ | . . O . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Black exchanged the corner for the side, and the pros say the result is about equal, so how much was the invasion worth? If black gained exactly as much as white did, then the value of the invasion was 0 points. Obviously it depends on the whole board situation, and it's much better than letting black take the whole lot (maybe that means not invading is worth -5 points(random number) or invading is worth +5 points), but because both players profit from almost any invasion, the actual value of most invasions is surprisingly small.

I think this is one reason why pro games are often so close, but it's all too easy to create a situation in which one player stands to gain much more from an invasion than the other. This is why, when trying to make territory, I aways ask myself "what do I get if my opponent invades here". If the answer is f@#k all in gote, then it's a very bad move, because then your opponent's invasion becomes worth a lot more. Let's go back to a 3-3 invasion of a 4-4 stone. This is a pretty extreme example, but it's the kind of situation that does crop up in games I play (which probably says awful things about my playing).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]B Corner $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . a . . . . X O $$ | . . . X . . . X O $$ | . . . . . . . X O $$ | . . . . . . . X O $$ | . . . X . . X O . $$ | . . . . . . X O . $$ | . . . . . . X O .[/go]

How much is an invasion at "a" worth here? It's worth a huge amount for two reasons.

1) Any thickness black builds is useless, so any territory white makes is pure profit.
2) With another stone black claims the area as his territory, so every stone played/everything white surrounds is a loss for black.

With that in mind, let's count it. (I can't be bothered to work out a proper sequence since I'm just trying to make a general point, so forgive me if this is incorrect)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]B Corner $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . O O X . . . $$ | . O O O X X . . . $$ | . . O X X . . X O $$ | O O O X . . . X O $$ | X O X . . . . X O $$ | X X X . . . . X O $$ | . . . X . . X O . $$ | . . . . . . X O . $$ | . . . . . . X O .[/go]

White makes 6 points of territory.
White plays 10 stones.
Black plays 10 stones.

So black loses 26 points and white gains 6, making the total value of the invasion 32 points, which is huge by any standard, but is especially impressive if you compare it to other invasions worth only a few points.

Game specific comment:

So back to the actual game. I'm sure you've realised (if you actually read this far), that I think this is a situation where I profit more from an invasion than black does. I messed up and didn't do as well as I could have, and it might have been better to wait until I was stronger on the outside, but this is why I said I was happy just living.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . B . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . B . . a . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looking at the situation above it seems to me that the marked stones effectively seal off the corner from the rest of the board, but they don't really claim it as territory. I see three situations resulting from this:

1)Neither player plays in that corner until later. Black is thick and has good influence.
2) Black plays first around "a". Black makes a huge profit in the corner and is thick with good influence.
3) White plays first around "a". Both players make a small amount of profit in the corner and black is thick with good influence.

Whatever happens, black has good influence on the outside, so the difference is whether black makes a huge profit or both players make a small profit. An invasion is almost pure profit for white, so I couldn't afford to let situation 1) continue any more than absolutely necessary. I'm not sure that I got that absolutely right, given my weakness on the bottom right, but it's hard to see how I would have come back from letting konfuzed take so much territory.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:24 pm

Current Boardstate:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No pressure, I prefer considering things carefully anyway.

Life In 19x19

#180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed