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#211 Adanux vs. tj86430

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=8106

Page 5 of 8

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:43 am
by The Intrepid
Black probably should have pushed into White's territory first. White would still have to defend like in the game, but he would get one point fewer and one cutting point more:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . M 2 M . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O 3 . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:00 pm
by tj86430
I'm extremely sorry for the long break, I will try to make my next move during next weekend at the latest.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:48 pm
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I did some reading, and I remember finding some flaw with this move. However, since I lost my variations due to a power outage, I don't remember any more what it was, and I can't find it again. I have spent too much time already, so I'm making my move and hoping it's ok after all. If not, I'm sure I'll soon find out why.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:27 pm
by Adanux
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
A bold move by my opponent. On the one hand, it fixes his only weakness on the right hand side so he has only one weak group to worry about during this fight. On the other hand, he's giving me a free move to try and kill his extremely heavy and currently eyeless group in the upper left. He must really trust his reading that he can escape, since his victory becomes very unlikely if that group dies. Conversely, I think I can win even if it lives assuming I'm able to profit attacking it and gain a strong center facing group to reduce him with. I don't think I can cleanly kill him but I should be able to profit enough from it to be in a good position to win the game.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:48 pm
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . 7 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I can't think of anything better. In fact, I can't think of anything else.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:27 am
by tj86430
I realized that my comments have been quite uninformative lately.

Here's what I've been thinking:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 3 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 4 1 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 6 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
After which I should be able to kill C14 and live on the edge

OR
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 4 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 3 1 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 6 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
which leads to a very complicated fight

OR
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
which should secure two eyes

OR
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Which is also very complicated, and I'm not sure of the best continuation from there.

BTW, I'm hoping my opponent thinks I'm going to do this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b4: @ F14
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 2 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 5 1 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
but I'm sure he can see the other variants.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:26 pm
by Adanux
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I've spent a lot of time staring at this problem and I can't find anything better than this simple atari. To explain why, I'll start with what I expect.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 What I expect
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 8 . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 4 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
This line lets him live, and leaves me with a cut at G12, but I have sente to find a move that both fixes it it and makes inroads into my opponent's influence. It also solidifies the left side as points for me, seals him in forcing him to live small, and removes all the aji at C12 that could have been exploited if we got into a running fight. Finally and most importantly, it gives me a lot of center facing thickness which should help greatly when I'm reducing him. However, if my opponent is feeling feisty he may not play 63 and instead decide to cut directly at G12. I've read out a lot of variations from that and I haven't seen anything in them that give him a better result than this so I certainly wouldn't mind him playing that way.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:00 pm
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:49 pm
by Adanux
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
This is forced now. I can only hope that my previous reading was correct, since if he's able to cut directly without having to go back and live, this game is probably over.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:10 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
It seems that I had misread earlier. However, I still think I can survive, e.g.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O 5 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . B 6 4 O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 2 3 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:58 am
by tj86430
I think I overlooked this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . B . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . 1 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I'm yet to find a way to save everything against optimal play, but perhaps there is a way...

If not, I may be able to take the corner while sacrificing the D15 group. That would definitely hurt, but still leave me with a playable position.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:30 am
by Adanux
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 5 X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Very strange move by my opponent. The additional push at D13 seems very important since it shorts the liberties on my C13 group enough to make it impossible for me to play C15. Now that A play at C15 has the potential to make an eye at B15 false, which begins to open up some serious kill possibilities for me. The line I'm currently reading out leads to a ko that my opponent will win since he has a lot of local threats, but I won't lose much for having lost it, and I'll end with sente and some additional thickness.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:42 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I almost posted this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 6 . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Forced, I think
But first I realised this would be nasty:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X B . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
And I would probably die a horrible death, e.g.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X 4 . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 2 3 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . 5 O X B . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Then I realised that I can afford to lose E13, if I gain two sure eyes in the corner.

If white takes:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O 2 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 1 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
should be sufficient

If white protects:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O 1 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 3 . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 2 . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
I can take and make second eye in the corner

I think this is the best try by white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O 5 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 6 4 O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X 1 7 X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 0 2 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . 8 O X 3 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 9 O O . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
And I should be alive.

I think whites last move was a mistake. Let's hope I haven't misread again.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:28 pm
by Adanux
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 7 . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Sometimes I feel like this malkovitch game is filled with mirages. I'll spent half an hour reading out variations and be confident in a great result only to come back later wondering what the hell I was thinking for missing an obvious move that ruins the whole sequence. If my reading is correct, black's D15 group is dead but he will be able to live small and in gote on the left side by giving those stones up. This result seems fantastic for black, and far better than anything I deserved when I played my forcing move at F14. Hopefully this isn't another mirage.

Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:43 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
As painful as it is, I have to admit that I had misread (or, what would be even more painful, I misread now). My corner dragon is dead, and I can't even find a ko or partial life against optimal play by my opponent.

However, I think that all is not lost. I still have a sizeable moyo on the right, and I think the first priority is to strengthen it. I don't know what the best move is, but this looks quite natural.

The corner group also has some aji left in them, e.g. I think this may well be sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . B . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
If white ignores, his top left group may come under severe attack and possibly die (it's very complicated, I haven't even tried to read the variations, but at least some continuations look promising).

Also, white has to be careful with his three stones at H13, because at some point my E14 may threaten to either make to eyes or break out by cutting at G12.
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