I think that Violence has to change this. As it stands, the latest black move threatens to kill a small group, keeping black busy for two moves. We should be happy to save our group with one move at 2, then make a huge move on the lower side with 4.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . 3 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 2 X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . 3 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 2 X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Worse yet, black's two moves up top have not unequivocally killed the group. It still can start a ko for life. A difficult ko, admittedly, but something better than death. But if we do win it, not only is our group alive, but black's upper middle group is then dead.
I predict that Violence will change to L17.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:38 am
by Mnemonic
For obs
I would like to note that the score has still not been corrected and if one of the players dares to ask again I'm going to lose it
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:32 pm
by Violence
Rejected.
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . B . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . B . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 2 7 O 1 . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 8 X O 4 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 6 3 O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 2 7 O 1 . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 8 X O 4 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 6 3 O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Bleh... this leaves us with a ko... which is basically the worst thing ever right now.
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 1 2 O 7 . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O 8 O X . . . O 0 O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O 4 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 6 3 O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 1 2 O 7 . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O 8 O X . . . O 0 O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O 4 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 6 3 O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
9 @ 3
I'm hoping we can do this...
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . X 6 . 7 . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . 1 O O O X 4 5 . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 3 X O O O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 2 . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . X 6 . 7 . . | $$ | . X X O O O O X . . 1 O O O X 4 5 . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 3 X O O O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 2 . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I just hope I calculated this out correctly.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:40 pm
by Chew Terr
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X W O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X W O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Their move makes the block on the outside sente. I considered just playing J19, but I wasn't convinced that letting them force J19 to run and making G19 a false eye would be in any way worth the risk. It would only be worth it if I could assure a kill or something, which I certainly can't. It's an interesting read though, but it just doesn't seem to deliver. Actually, on reading, I'm thinking this group might just die if they played their cards right. But this way, we're safe, at least.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:19 am
by Joaz Banbeck
I don't approve.
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X C O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . @ C O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X C O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . @ C O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
We're looking at a ko, so let's weigh the potential losses: Our NNW group = 25 points Their NW group 20 points Our WNW group = 20 points but actually mush larger because the WSW remains barely survive in gote. Our N group = 37 points
We are short on ko threats
If we protect our NNW group against the latest threat, they can take the ko like this:
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C 2 O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C 2 O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
We can delay the ko with 3 like this:
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X 4 . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 6 X O 3 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 5 C O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O T X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O T X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X 4 . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 6 X O 3 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 5 C O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O T X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O T X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But we can't ever fill the ko because we lose the subsequent liberties race since black has the two outside liberties marked with triangles.
Either way, playing the ko immediately or delaying it, we come to the hard fact that the biggest ko threat we have is worth about 20 points against their NW group. If they take the ko with 4, we lose a 37-point group, capture a 20 point group in gote, and give them the big play with 6 at the lower side, like this:
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . 5 3 . . X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O 4 C X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . 2 C C C X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X C C X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X C C X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X C X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X C X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . 5 3 . . X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O 4 C X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . 2 C C C X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X C C X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X C C X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X C X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X C X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
( The delayed ko looks much the same )
That is a net loss of 17 points and they get the big play first.
On the other hand, if we save our 37-point northern group, and concede our 25-point NNW group, we have a net loss of 25 points, but get the big southern play first. That play has got to be worth more than 8 points.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:36 am
by Chew Terr
...wait, did he post something scary just because it was post 666?
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:53 am
by gaius
Uuhm... White should have 2 extra points due to daniel_the_smith's a few moves earlier...
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:30 am
by Mnemonic
gaius wrote:Uuhm... White should have 2 extra points due to daniel_the_smith's a few moves earlier...
Don't worry! It's not like they'll change anything.
Edit: But since someone asked I'll give an update: I don't exactly know why Joaz only counted Violences change as 3 points (it should be 4 since his younger brother approved jts's move) but that cancels out the 1 point discrepancy that they been hogging since forever.
Current count is: B: 70 W: 62
Joaz: isn't a correction by a Big Brother if the middle brother approved worth 4 points?
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:17 am
by Joaz Banbeck
gaius wrote:Uuhm... White should have 2 extra points due to daniel_the_smith's a few moves earlier...
I belive that I included those.
Back when we were waiting for Gresil, we had W65 to B60. Daniel made a correction for 2; Violence for 1. So white has 68. I made a correction for 2 so black has 62.
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:32 am
by daniel_the_smith
Didn't Violence's correction cost 4? Since I hadn't previously corrected that move?
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:18 pm
by shapenaji
Approved
No choice, this ko is a bit harder to win than I read way back when. Luckily, black will need a few more moves on the top, which will give us liberties we can use in the upcoming fight for the bottom.
EDIT: Black also needs to be careful with how he responds on top. anything other than J19 gets ninja'd
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:31 pm
by jts
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X . O B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X . O B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Le sigh. I guess they knew that wasn't going anywhere good for them. Not entirely sure why they didn't let us use one more threat... doesn't matter too much, I guess.
I'm going with this because the aji of G19 involves us rapidly losing liberties. (If W plays J19 as a ko threat or something. Hopefully there's nothing I'm missing... I'm not sure why Violence changed threat. Maybe there was a way for W to set up a ko after all?
I now predict J4 or L4, after which... I think invading the lower right corner has got to be big. Call me greedy. The walls will make it really hard to oppose W in the center, but I don't think there's such thing as "oh I can't go 3-3 because it's too late in the game."
And finally, a rough count.
$$Bcm141 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C X C W X . . . . . . . C C C | $$ | C X X W W C W X . . . O . O X . C C C | $$ | C X W W C W X X . . O . O . O X X C C | $$ | C X X W W X O X . X X O . O O O X X C | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X W W W | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X C C C C C X | $$ | . . O X C C . . O X X O X X X X C X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X C C C | $$ | . B B O X . X . . O O O O X O X X C X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X C | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W68 B62 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | C C C C C X C W X . . . . . . . C C C | $$ | C X X W W C W X . . . O . O X . C C C | $$ | C X W W C W X X . . O . O . O X X C C | $$ | C X X W W X O X . X X O . O O O X X C | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X W W W | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X C C C C C X | $$ | . . O X C C . . O X X O X X X X C X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X C C C | $$ | . B B O X . X . . O O O O X O X X C X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X C | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Thinking in terms of area rather than territory hurts my brain. I think we have 66 points of fairly sure territory, and they have 15-20. Clearly they're going to make more territory on the lower side, and they can make a bit more territory on the top. But are they going to make 50 points more than we do? I think we're in very good shape. (Or I counted wrong.)
Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:44 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Approved.
I can't count this board, but I think it's very close. I think white is ahead, considering komi and corrections.
